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Problem with 2006 Toyota Verso semiautomatic car

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It's just my opinion of course, however I'd say any reasonable person would expect a gearbox to last longer than 6 months, never mind 6 hours, on a car with low mileage and a price of £4k.

 

You haven't bought new but you haven't exactly bought an old banger either.

 

I'd agree with Bankfodder's assessment way back at the start of the thread that you have a better than 95% chance of being successful. It wouldn't take a lot to convince a judge that the fault was present when you bought the car. Good luck.

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That gearbox was a goner when you got it, no doubt about it.

Also because there's very little you can do to damage an automatic gearbox in 6 hours.

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Yes, I think that you probably have a two pronged approach. The judge will ask what a reasonable person would expect – and if the answer is that this falls below those standards, then it becomes a defect – and even though it is a minor defect, it then allows the purchaser to assert their first six months rights under the contract. After six months, the judge will also ask whether the defect undermined the purpose of the contract and that then provides an answer as to what remedy should be awarded in respect of the breach.

In respect of the first six months defect, the burden of proof rests upon the trader to show that the defect did not exist. After six months, then the question of when the defect arose is at large – but by and large if it can be said is not a satisfactory quality then I think that any examination of when the defect occurred is pretty well irrelevant.

I think the question of when the defect occurred will tend to become important when you start to look at the limits of the period of reasonable expectation. A £3000 £4000 vehicle which fails within the first six months – or even within the first 12 months is almost certainly not matched up to reason expectations. After all, what a reasonable person is going to expect to pay £4000 for a vehicle which maybe needs £1000 or more work on it even before 12 months use?

On the other hand, if the vehicle has lasted three or four years without a problem and suddenly this gearbox fault occurs then I'm sure that a lot of discussion will be focused on what is the reason a life expectancy of the vehicle of that age, price, description – and all the other circumstances – as required by the Act.


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Hopefully over the last week there has been a greater sense of acknowledgement about the rights surrounding the short term right to reject, burden of proof, definition of satisfactory quality etc etc.

 

This should result in a better quality of advice being provided in the future but for now I think it might be an idea to correct the slightly misleading information provided in the sticky at the top of the 'General Motoring Issues' section, particularly post #10 and the rather pointless argument that appears to have ensued.  The problem with it being a sticky could be that those seeking advice could regard this as the definitive version.

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Thank you Chuffnut, King12345 and BankFodder for your latest comments. The latest twist is that the dealer is saying that he will not accept the independent engineer's report because (a) I chose the independent engineer not them, and (b) the conclusion supports my case! I chose the engineer completely at random from the IAEA website, just someone who is geographically close to the dealer and to the Toyota garage and with whom I have absolutely no connection. An echo of that now infamous quotation  "he would say that wouldn't he"!

 

The irony is I wanted to have an independent report because I felt that the dealer (and possibly a judge) could argue that a report from the Toyota garage alone was indeed a case of "they would say that wouldn't they" because it would be in their interest to identify a long list of faults so as to maximise the amount they would earn from repairing the car!

 

The ingenuity of the dealer knows no end. They are sticking to their mantra that we damaged the car because we are not experienced in using the Toyota MMT system. I can see this going to court now if they do not refund. In a way it may be the best outcome, as we would be able to add on all the additional costs that this fiasco has cost us. My dilemma is what to do about the car itself. My friend is the legal owner and it is insured in his name, yet it will be sitting in the dealers compound until the matter is sorted. Does anyone have any comments to make about this?

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You have received your advice here and you now see the kind of dealer you are involved with. Have you send them a letter of claim? I've rather lost track. If you have sent a letter of claim already then simply issue the papers. If you haven't sent a letter of claim then do so and then issue the papers. I don't think you have any choice.

Keep the insurance in place to avoid any complications of the vehicle becoming damaged and then the dealer denying responsibility et cetera. Keep a careful note of all associated expenses


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In fact going back, I noticed that I suggested that you send a letter of claim on 6 April. I don't believe you have done it. Had you done that then you would be in a position to issue the court papers immediately. Instead, you now have to wait a further 14 days. What a shame.

Sending a letter of claim would not have committed you to anything but it least it would have gotten that necessary pre-action protocol stepped out of the way. You're falling into the trap of getting into protracted exchanges and the only person who benefits is the dealer.


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Moving forward is letter before court action and 14 days later mcol.

No ifs, no buts.

Should they reply to the lba saying that they already made their position clear and they won't refund, you would be saving some time.

This is shocking.

You went to a Toyota dealer and got stitched up, imagine how confident the little back street dealers must feel!

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@BankFodder

Yes, you did but I wanted to wait until we got the official reports as there was a point where I began to doubt myself, asking myself could we have accidentally damaged the MMT system after all? The dealer now has both reports and so there will be no protracted exchanges after tomorrow because if the dealer does not do the BACS transfer refund then, then we will start the court procedure.

 

@king12345

What is the lba please? I clicked on the link but there is no explanation of this abbreviation there?

I'm not sure if you have understood our problem - the car was bought from a small dealer who have done the stitching up, the Toyota garage just carried out the diagnosis of the problem and are not involved with the sale of the car or the refund.

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It means letter before action which is basically the same as a letter of claim or letter before claim.

I suggested on the 6th of April you should send them one


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Apologies for the prolonged radio silence!

 

To cut a very long story short,

I went back to Barclaycard (because I bought the car with my VISA card) and they offered to repair the car at a cost of £2500.

 

We accepted the offer because we were advised that even if we went to court and won the case, there was no guarantee that the dealer would give us our money back anyway or would end up paying us £10 a week for the next umpteen years.

 

The decision to have the car repaired was also made in the light of the fact that apart from the gearbox issue the rest of the car was in good nick. It is running fine after nearly 4 months now, so even if our friend gets a few more years out of it it will have been worth it.

 

Now that it is all settled I can reveal the name of the dealer - it was Thatcham Motor Company, in Thatcham, Berks.

Very pleasant to deal with at first whilst everything was ok but boy oh boy, beware if anything goes wrong!

 

Similarly Momentum Warranties who provided the 6 months "warranty".

On paper this warranty apparently covers practically every conceivable fault that the car might develop until you try to make a claim!

 

It seems that only if a component physically breaks that any cover is provided, otherwise they will hide behind the "fair wear and tear" get-out clause.

Can an ECU unit be subject to wear and tear?

 

I would not touch either of these outfits again with the proverbial barge pole. Buyer beware!

 

One further thing I forgot to mention.

We ran up considerable expenses trying to sort all the issues

- the engineer's reports, travel costs etc.

 

Is it too late to try to claim these back from the dealer now?

I just ran out of energy by the time Barclaycard agreed to pay for the repair but now the dust has settled I am up for it again!

 

Would this have to be done via the Small Claims Court?

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yes only court...

 

can I confirm this was settled via Barclaycard and chargeback as it was a debit card, rather than section 75 via a creditcard?

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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It was settled by Barclaycard because I bought the car using my VISA credit card.

Do you know if there is a time limit for taking the company to court to claim the consequential expenses incurred?

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so won by a section 75 claim under the consumer credit act then

 

consequential losses are also covered by section 75 as the card provide is equally liable as you've already found out

 

as for the dealer and court

there is no time limit, well 6yrs I believe

 

though it would be a tough battle but made slightly easier as BC coughed up.

but again what would you in all reality 'win' probably go bust or change name

 

 

 

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Thanks for the info. It would be worthwhile proceeding to recover consequential losses because there is a matter of principle at stake. I can imagine that the dealer is probably feeling quite smug having made a profit from the sale of a dodgy car with absolutely no come-back other than a less than glowing review on Trustpilot. Also we are not talking about a small amount here, we are talking many hundreds of pounds.

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well thats the gamble you  take in small claimd court.

 

though as i say

with bc argreeing to pay the repairs [should have also been your losses mind!]

it does strenghten your case for a win in a claim.

 

now if you'll ever get anything out of him even if you do

is a very different matter.

 

 

 

 

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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