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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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HSBCandMe

Defaulted HBOS AA loan from 2004 sold to Cabot

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Cabot wrote today, saying Wescot have handed collections back to Cabot.  Is this a sign of things hotting up? 

 

They also made an offer of settling for 42% of outstanding debt.  

 

Any views on this and whether, in light of the above comments on the CCA, I should accept? 

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typically a discount means there are problems wit the debt

be that paperwork

or the balance

penalty fees , PPI anything like that in it?
 


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Posted (edited)

No ppi. There was the £50 penalty fee and £50 courier fee (attachments, above). Balance, I have argued above, includes preloaded interest (surely?).  

 

In your experience, what should my next steps be? Should I fold, make a counter offer or continue dispute?  In light of the CCA being (prima facie) enforceable? 

Edited by HSBCandMe

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well £50+int doesnt = 42%

and 42% is a weird figure to offer a discount on.

 

somethings up IMHO.

 

wait and see what they send next

don't forget they've got to send a PAP letter before they try and litigate.

do we know if things like the DN exist?

has HSBC gotten an sar sent yet

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The claim is for £7K odd.

The settlement offer is for approx. £3K. 

 

'I THINK' the £4K discount is suspiciously like the amount of interest HBOS preloaded to the credit and (and I never got a rebate). Earlier posts refer. 

Anyway, it looks suspiciously like.

 

Their stoopid £50 charges are just powder added to my ammo, the real issue is the interest. 

 

Also, the APR is way out (above the de minimis).

However, it is not I gather a prescribed term, but does call into question the amount owed under an otherwise valid CCA. 

 

 

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In your defence you could say:

The APR calculated to 99% rather than that indicated in your reconstruction. I remind you that the FCA defines an acceptable margin of error as .1% below the actual value or 1% above, this represents a breach of section 65-127(1) CCA1974.

 

The increased APR also leads me to believe there was another item in the charge for credit, That or the repayment details were incorrect, which would render the agreement unredeemable, not having the original it is impossible to ascertain what was on it..

 

AS well as the other factors I submit that it would be extremely unlikely, and certainly beyond the realms of the evidential test for you to be able to reconstruct a Section 77 compliant copy

 

feel free to alter/ammend substitute/ correct spellimg etc/.

 

It may be as said that one or some of those charges were within the TCC, this would account for the error.


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DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

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I posted up the photocopy of the signed CCA earlier. This is not a recon. You took the view, I think, it was enforceable.

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Yes and I think I pointed out that the enforceability of the CCA is dependant on more than the document you posted.

On its own, the agreement sites all the correct terms and is compliant with section 77.

 

However, it also has to comply with the agreement(copy) you signed, how can anyone who as not seen that document say one way or the other.

 

I went on to explain how it would be impossible to calculate the terms on the second agreement from the first as the first did not exist.

 

I seem to be constantly repeating myself, and I do not see you doing anything to move this case forward. 


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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But you can see it’s the one I signed - it’s a photocopy if it. 

 

Are you confusing this thread with my masterloan thread? 

 

On 18/04/2019 at 19:20, Dodgeball said:

However, it also has to comply with the agreement(copy) you signed, how can anyone who as not seen that document say one way or the other.

 

Post #7. 

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys. 

 

Cabot wrote today (they usually do for a Friday delivery) and said as follows: 

 

“dear... 

 

“you were provided with:

 

”credit agreement 

“T&cs

”statement of account 

 

“your reference to ss.61 and 127(3) of the CCA is not relevant under a.77. 

 

“We are not the original creditor and are unable to assist with matters relating to pre-purchase conduct. 

 

“As this dispute is in regard to whether the debt is unenforceable, you cannot refer it to the financial ombudsman service. They cannot adjudicate on this determination l, as only the court can. 

 

“In light of the above it is clear we have complied with ss77-79 CCA and you need to contact us to discuss your repayment options on.... etc” 

 

 

 

Edited by HSBCandMe

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Hi. I have an on-going complaint with Cabot about a rebate of pre-loaded interest on a pre-2004 loan I took out with the AA.

After years of paying minimal payments to Cabot, the AA finally assigned it to them last year. 

 

I CCA'd them and on the back of it disputed a £50 courier fee, a £50 collections charge and about £3K of pre-loaded interest that was not off-set against the loan when it went to collections in 2006.  Current debt about £7K.

 

During the course of my dispute, Cabot wrote me in May making a settlement offer of about 43% of the outstanding debt, of approx. £2,300 or thereabouts.

 

I made a counter offer in May to pay the £2,300 over 60 months and after that debt to be written off, and that this would NOT affect my on-going dispute with them about charges and rebated interest.

 

Cabot wrote back to me agreeing to that proposal.

I replied by recorded post saying fine, and that I would make my first payment to them under the new arrangement in June. 

They were duly paid the agreed amonts in June and July.

 

However, I have just received a letter (mid-July) from Cabot (a different author to the guy who accepted the offer), saying that they cannot accept an arrangement with me during a dispute.

 

My argument is that they made an offer, I accepted it, I added some conditions, did not receive a response, made my first payment to them under it and that they should now be stuck with it. 

 

Any views?

 

 

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Yes...dont talk or agree anything with Debt Collectors...they are not creditors but debt buyers and have very little powers to change the T&Cs of a loan or handle any disputes with the OC...the debt should be returned to AA whilst an ongoing dispute is in force.

 

Andy

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Its been a while since I have posted on this.

 

My complaint with Cabot has been drifting on,

 

I received letter from them yesterday saying that my complaint had gone for "independent review." 

 

Anyone any idea what DCAs mean when they say that??? 

 

Who could they  possibly use for an "independent review"?  

 

 Are they implying they are taking counsel's opinion? 

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doubt it can mean anything but I bet it means nothing.


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Yup, can't trust 'em.

 

Are Cabot and Wescot the same company?

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wetcloths are not affiliated to the cabot group 

and even so they say 'their client' so anyone that says that can be ignored


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"independent review."  in the terms of a debt buyer means the bloke on the next desk who sits on his own and has a full desk to himself will read the dispute...as long as someone hold the papers for him.:becky:


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Looking at my CCA from 2004, the AA added £3,862.40 interest to my £14,350 loan.  APR 9.5%. 

Says total amount of credit was £18,212.40. 

 

When it defaulted in 2006, the AA didn't rebate the intertest, and I ended up repaying the full total amount of £18,212.40 down until they flogged it to Cabot in February.

 

The circumstances seem very similar to my Masterloan thread i.e. is this pre-loaded interest that should have been off-set against the principle at Default)? 

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no.

 

 


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They're allowed to claim the pre-loaded interest even if the loan does not go to term?

 

What should their CCA state to make that enforceable?

 

Also, how does this scenario differ in any material way from what Masterloan have done (my other thread)? 

 

There were express terms of repayment of the capital plus interest over 60 monthly instalments.  However, you are saying the Default has no effect, so that when charged-off the interest did not have to be rescheduled?

 

P.S. It may be irrelevant, I don't know, but I can’t see an acceleration clause in the CCA allowing them  to ‘call in’ the entire amount of interest on the 5 year loan Copy of the Ts & Cs from my original CCA attached. Clause 2 (c) refers to interest being charged until settlement, but I’m not sure that is an acceleration clause.

 

If you have any thoughts on the above they would be greatly appreciated.

20191120102845876.pdf

 

Post 24 on my earlier AA thread for this loan...

 

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threads merged

 

as has been stated 3 times in the now merged thread

there is no there there over the interest.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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4 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

there is no there there over the interest.

 Huh? 🙄

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they have done nothing wrong.

you keep making trump there there's that there is something wrong...

there is not..

 

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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