Hartley Wintney Motors - got them in small claims court - now a late 'offer'

[buyer-beware]

Wear and tear is specifically excluded from CRA15.

 

The CRA protects sellers equally against unreasonable  consumers..

You've ignored the fact the buyer has possibly driven this car to destruction..

Told to service immediately,

written into the contract and then ignored,

travelled 1k and then blames the retailer ....

you are being completely blind to the facts that have been laid out in front of you.

 

I repeat,

your responses are completely unbalanced and one sided, 

don't give  advise like its gospel. 

You are completely one sided and blind.

 

Court isn’t about the consumer, it’s about being reasonable and balanced.

That’s what to judge looks for.

Fairness, reasonableness and accuracy.

 

You are promoting none of the above.

Edited April 7, 2019 by buyer-beware

[dx100uk]

 it having no oil in it at all after all the checks we did before we found a mug to buy it..

damn it ..did it on day 29 ...another day and I might of gotten out of any responsibility totally..

driven into the ground in 29 days and 1000miles...

oh we but told the buyer to get it serviced..that covers us...so what..

its the gamble you traders TAKE when you buy/sell cars..your gamble should not be passed onto the mug that buys it.

 

I must find that interview with that MP whereby he specifically stated used car dealers and the stunts they pull in the run up to the then new CRA being introduced and that how the CRA now protects innocent buyers with the new short term right to return.

actually I think matt alwright played it on watchdog...

 

 

 

[Anidog1]

Ermm, I haven't driven it to destruction.

I had it 29 days and done ONE THOUSAND miles, not 10.

 

My mechanic produced 4 pages of faults.

All the documents were shown to a qualified mechanic at a well known dealership and his comment was it should never have been sold in that condition.

 

The aircon had been disconnected.

The directional fans weren't connected so the windscreen couldn't be demisted.

There was no coolant and no oil.

 

Thank you. 

[dx100uk]

 

 

 

 

[Anidog1]

No checks were carried out by the trader.

What reputable dealership would sell a car with no petrol and no screen wash.

 

The car was driven to London the day before I picked it up to have an mot done because he didn't know the mot had run out until I asked him on the day I put the deposit down, 3 days earlier, if it had a valid mot.

 

They drove it to London because that's where they live, yet their dealership is next to a garage, who carry out mot's!

I have been chasing all weekend for the elusive PDI report to be emailed to me.

 

He's told me he's emailed it to their fictitious claims dept.  

I have also requested the full contact details for this insurance company so I can deal with them direct.

He won't give them to me.

This reputable insurance company operates from a hotmail account.

And you still don't think it sounds dodgy?

[Anidog1]

12 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

 

 

 

Are they good emoji's???

 

Just wondering, I have been on trading standards website and used car section. It refers to getting monies back if paid by credit or debit card. I assumed this was only if you paid by credit card but I used my bank debit card to pay the deposit and balance. Would I be able to try and claim my money back by using my debit card? Thanks.

[dx100uk]

rock on ..good work.

 

yes you would be able to do a chargeback

you are within 540 days and even the 120 days which starts when you realise you could use chargeback.

 

pers i'd let CRA run its course first mind.

see what bankfodder thinks too.

dx

[Anidog1]

Thank you. Also, I've noticed that the 3 reviews they have had on Google are no longer there! Can they remove their reviews? It seems pointless in having an option to review if a) they can remove it and b) you can't put a review unless it's a glowing 5 star one!

[dx100uk]

yes they can and lots do get bad things removed

[Anidog1]

I guess I'll just pop another one up then!

[Anidog1]

I've tried to put them back onto Google maps and write another review, but it's not even picking up their address? 

[dx100uk]

probably find they've dissolved the company and sprung up under s diff name now, hence google removed them when asked?

 

dx

 

[buyer-beware]

On 08/04/2019 at 00:00, Anidog1 said:

Ermm, I haven't driven it to destruction.

I had it 29 days and done ONE THOUSAND miles, not 10.

 

My mechanic produced 4 pages of faults.

All the documents were shown to a qualified mechanic at a well known dealership and his comment was it should never have been sold in that condition.

 

The aircon had been disconnected.

The directional fans weren't connected so the windscreen couldn't be demisted.

There was no coolant and no oil.

 

Thank you. 

OP, I am trying to help you. I am not misleading you with a completely unbalanced, blind to the facts view. 

 

To reject within 30 days, the Judge will require proof that the fault was present at the point of sale. The defendant has stated, it was professionally inspected prior to sale and that you were fully advised it needed an immediate service. This is significant because the CRA allows vehicles to be sold with faults or immediate requirements as long as it is roadworthy at the point of sale. You cannot then claim in retrospect after ignoring the retailer. 

 

You need to counter this with a professional report confirming your allegations were present at the point of sale, if you wish to claim a rejection within 30 days or alternatively accept one repair.

 

This is is a balanced response to your post. 

 

 

[Anidog1]

Thank you for your help.

However, they never provided me with the PDI report.

They never drew my attention to the oil.

This is complete fabrication on their part.

 

I have spent the weekend requesting them to send me a copy of the report via about 10 emails, 2 phone calls and several text messages. It still hasn't appeared.

I have also asked for the full details of the company where Mr Fletcher dealing with the claim works as all they have given me is a hotmail address.

They are unable to do this. 

[king12345]

Ok, let's filter the water to clean up some hard facts.

 

First of all you need to identify who is your potential defendant.

This is the person or company listed on your sale receipt. 

 

One important thing to consider: if you have been sold the car by a limited company,  keep in mind that they can shut it as soon as they receive court papers and you'll be even more at a loss.

 

Hopefully your sale receipt is in a company name "not limited", i.e. "dodgy motors" without ltd or limited.

Look out for the small print at the bottom or rear of the receipt where they could state something like "dodgy motors is a limited company registered in England and Wales etc. etc."

 

Now, let's hope you're not dealing with a limited company, the person who signed the receipt is personally responsible,  so you would sue them personally trading as...

i.e. John Smith trading as dodgy motors.

If you find their personal address you would have a better chance of recovering your money.

 

Of course if they are pennyless and with a long list of unsatisfied ccjs against their name, you'd probably never see any money.

There's a way to look for ccj against an individual. 

 

In all honesty,  it is difficult to think that an engine can lose all oil in a month/1000miles and come up with all the defects you listed.

The dealer would have some trouble explaining this to a court.

 

Is it fair to expect a car just purchased to run for a month/1000 miles without self destroying?

Yes, unless they pointed out the faults at point of sale, which they didn't otherwise they would have made you sign for it.

 

So your problem is not whether you could be successful in court, you have very good odds, but if you'd be able to enforce any ccj.

[Anidog1]

Ok, so the sales invoice is headed Hartley Wintney Motors UK, but the machine receipt is Hartley Wintney Motors Ltd. On the bottom of their document of sale which they had me sign,  it says Hartley Wintney Motors UK is a trading name of Hartley Wintney Motors Ltd. !

[buyer-beware]

OP. One of the biggest problems with this site is some of its posters extreme attitude / obvious hatred towards retailers. With extreme interpretation of the CRA which ate just frankly wrong and not how the CRA is or should be used in real life. 

 

99.9% of retailers are good honest businesses trying to do their best for their customer. Rejection is shouted by some here like it should be the first thing you should ask for if there is a fault and then top it off with lots of bad reviews for the horrible nasty retailer. It’s extremely bad advice because it’ll get you absolutely nowhere.

 

Judges, look at each case in a balanced and reasonable manner, they look at the facts and make a decision based on the law.

 

OP, thank you for your thanks. Buy, you are not entitled to demand to see the PDI if they even have one, however it’s in your favour the seller hasn’t provided it to you or even asked you to sign it at the point of sale. 

 

If I was you, I would seriously take a big step back, delete your bad reviews and try to work out with the garage, ask them to repair, you are then in a far better position if it subsequently fails again.

 

You have to be reasonable and be seen to be reasonable, take a balanced and fair approach. If you get nowhere, then and only then go down the legal route, but this should ALWAYS be the very last resort, when all else has failed. 

 

This is a balanced response to the OP’s issue. 

 

[Anidog1]

The reason I am being so insistent on seeing the PDI is because their response letter to me bears no relation to me whatsoever.

It is addressed to a man, and it's regarding a completely different vehicle.

I think they have not adhered to GDPR.

I'm pursuing the PDI to see if it relates to my car or not!

 

I have spoken to the gentleman who the letter was addressed to and he confirms he never received a PDI.

It's very difficult to remain calm when you're dealing with an obnoxious oik who is trying to lie his way through everything

- and I'm left without a car but with a £3,000 debt to my mum who lent me the money.

 

As stated before, I work for solicitors so eventually it will just be put in their hands.

 

And I appreciate I can't demand to see the PDI, but surely if it was a document which was supposed to be given to me at purchase, then surely I have a right to see it?

[dx100uk]

these missing/unseen PDI seem a problem with this trader.

I wonder if they never existed at the time and are something that's conjuered up after the event if things go south and the customer complains about the vehicle. then they are written in haste and suddently appear but are backdated to cover their errors.

 

 

[Anidog1]

Exactly, which is why I am so keen to see it to see who it relates to before I respond to their letter to the wrong person! Ineptitude much?

[king12345]

 

So you bought the car from a limited company. 

Tough luck unfortunately. 

These characters know that they can pile up ccjs, shut the company and open up next day in the same place, same people, different name.

All perfectly legal (ish).

 

Sounds like they are in another dispute with the man you spoke to, so more evidence supporting the classic scenario of the limited company.

 

In view of this your best bet is to either get a ccj and hope the company is still standing at enforcement stage, beg for some money from them (unlikely to happen) or sell the car in bits to limit your losses.

Sorry.

[buyer-beware]

3 hours ago, Anidog1 said:

The reason I am being so insistent on seeing the PDI is because their response letter to me bears no relation to me whatsoever.

It is addressed to a man, and it's regarding a completely different vehicle.

I think they have not adhered to GDPR.

I'm pursuing the PDI to see if it relates to my car or not!

 

I have spoken to the gentleman who the letter was addressed to and he confirms he never received a PDI.

It's very difficult to remain calm when you're dealing with an obnoxious oik who is trying to lie his way through everything

- and I'm left without a car but with a £3,000 debt to my mum who lent me the money.

 

As stated before, I work for solicitors so eventually it will just be put in their hands.

 

And I appreciate I can't demand to see the PDI, but surely if it was a document which was supposed to be given to me at purchase, then surely I have a right to see it?

You cannot demand to see the preparation a retailer has done post sale, it’s none of your business (to put it bluntly). This is something a consumer should do prior to purchase, you have a responsibility to show due diligence and check everything works to your satisfaction prior to handing over your money. You cannot make him show you a PDI.

 

You have asked him to provide, that’s all you can do.

 

The business has been trading as a LTD company for 4 years and if you look at the accounts it has assets. 

 

Have you asked him him to repair the car or is he simply refusing ? 

[Anidog1]

I asked to see a copy of the PDI because in his letter he said that I had been given the PDI. He said it may have been attached to the bill of sale, maybe I had misplaced it. It was never given to me that's why I am asking to see a copy of it.

 

My mechanic said the gasket could be fixed but there's no guarantee that it couldn't happen again in 6 months and he said there's absolutely no way the warranty company would agree to it.

The warranty company will only cover £1,000.

 

Apart from the gasket problem, there is also the fact that the aircon has been disconnected, the directional fans aren't connected!

 

I don't want to keep the car because I have lost all faith in it.

I would certainly say it wasn't fit for purpose when it was sold.

If the fans don't work, how could I demist my windscreen?

Answer is, I couldn't which is why I had to drive 27 miles in the dark, and the rain, trying to clear the windscreen with my sponge thingy. That's not safe!

 

He has never offered to repair it, his first comment when I contacted him about the breakdown was to give me the name of their rep at WMS Group.

 

In his letter he has offered to assist but thinks I am being un-cooperative.

 

All I have done is chase up emails because they are not responding to them. I don't consider that as being un-cooperative, if anything I would say they are being so and indeed obstructive.

 

He has given me the name of someone in his claims department.

They don't have a claims department!

It's all just delay tactics in the hope that I will give up!

[basildonbond1946]

With no connection to the poster. I would certainly take any advice  from Buyerbeware with an enormous pinch of salt if I was looking to take action under the CRA he seems to have rewrit to the Rogue dealers advantage, he also know a lot about the company that should start bells ringing as to how un biased his advice is

[basildonbond1946]

I have also noted that buyerbeware only joined CAG 04/04/2019 which coincidently was the day the OP sent in his original reply one begins to wonder which of the two boneheads that runs the company he is. Then I thought he seems much to intelligent to flout the Cra so wantonly. So be very wary of buyerbeware and his crap advice