Paying for others rubbish clearance from housing association estate.

[JoeyJoeC]

Don't know if there is anything I/we can do, but our housing association recently sent out the updated service charges list, and we now the amount listed for "Rubbish clearance from the estate" has gone from £6 to £88. 

 

The summary explains that this is due to fly tipping, and residents that dump furniture (sofa's, fridges, freezers, table's etc) in the bin room. I've never done this, always borrowed a van to take to the recycling centre so I'm a bit annoyed about having to pay.

 

Is there anything we can do to force the housing association to actually do something to help prevent this? There are cameras covering the area's, but they're not interested, easier to just make us all pay for it. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by JoeyJoeC

[stu007]

Hi

Actually you and every other tenant has the right to challenge Service Charges

 

1. Send the Housing Association a Subject Access Request.

 

2. Write to the Housing Association and make sure and Title your letter 'Formal Complaint' with Reference to there letter dated xx/xx/xxxx about Summary increase in Service Charge is due to fly tipping.

 

a. Clarification if a consultation took place on the increase from £6 to £88 in Service Charges due to Fly Tipping?

 

b. Clarification as to exactly what action the Housing Association has taken to resolve the Fly Tipping Issues that Service Users are now being made to pay for by way of a Service Charge?

 

c. Clarification as to when this increase in Service Charge was Approved by the Housing Associations Board?

 

I also require the following:

a. Rents Statements from XX/XX/XXXX to XX/XX/XXXX
b. Customer Care/Standards Policy (not the leaflet)
c. Repairs & Maintenance Policy (not the leaflet)
d. Rent and Service Charge Policy (not the leaflet)
e. Anti-Social Behaviour Policy (not the leaflet) note: fly tipping comes under this as well
f. Copy of your signed Tenancy Agreement.

 

(note when you get these take your time and have a highlighter or some marker and as you read them just
think to yourself 'Did they do that', if not mark it and you use there own policies against them)

 

[Bazooka Boo]

Sounds exactly like my old Housing association and their random ''Miscellaneous'' charges of £150 they used to sneak through every year.

 

The simple fact is, that if the neighbours didn't dump their rubbish then the rest of the tenants wouldn't be forced to pay for its removal.

 

When my old neighbours used to dump their crap in the communal areas, then if I didn't know whose it was, I'd find out, then  drop it outside their front door, OR I'd open the bin bags find letters addressed to them, take a photo of it to send to the housing officer then tip it all back outside their front door.

 

I'd definitely be asking the HA what they are doing to tackle the ASB of fly tipping, and the feasibility of them, the HA, providing a bulk rubbish run once a month.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Bazooka Boo

[JoeyJoeC]

Thanks Stu, I will put together a letter today.

 

I do already have some of that information, they send a breakdown of the service charges and now also send through what each individual charge covers. I know there are people not from the area that fly tip, but the charges have shot right up in the last increase and I know they're not doing anything about it. 

 

In fact they even removed the CCTV camera's after people complained they weren't doing anything to stop anti-social behaviour. 

[ericsbrother]

you need to get some of your fellow tenants invoved in a bit of publicity over this and if you suspect that rubbish is being brought in then get evidenec by installing CCTV (one of those cheap wireless jobs linked to your wifi will do) and go through the stuff to find evidence of where it comes from and then make a fuss about this to the papers and the council just as you start up your complaint to the HA about the charges so the HA cna be held to its response to the publicity.

If the HA owned a field and peopel dumped stuff on it they would be obliged to remove the stuff at their own expense the same as any other landowner. Your problem is they are offsetting their liabilities because they can and it has to be said with some justifation to those that live there. Dob in thy neighbour.

[JoeyJoeC]

I tried to get other people interested but was met with silence. I'm pretty sure most people here are dumping stuff in the bin rooms.  There's only 12 flats in my block and the bin room always has a fridge freezer / sofa / TV unit etc in there. 

 

There is a camera covering the area, I'm not able to setup anything as it can't be seen from my flat (or anyone elses) as the bin room can be accessed from the ground floor hall. 

 

I sent the letter a 16 days ago, not heard anything back at all yet. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by JoeyJoeC

[king12345]

See this to challenge the service charges and get a refund:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/408668-management-company-accounts-many-duplicate-invoices/

 

And this:

 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/414687-undocumented-service-charges-refundcourt-action/

 

[ericsbrother]

cant be seen? that is why I said a cheap wifi. radio signals dont need line of sight but it will need to connect to somewhere close

[JoeyJoeC]

9 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

cant be seen? that is why I said a cheap wifi. radio signals dont need line of sight but it will need to connect to somewhere close

 

Not possible, I'm 3rd floor, no one else can help, literally no where to plug in a camera or even place it without it being seen or stolen. 

 

I specialise in WiFi for open spaces / large events and have setup many CCTV camera's for clients mainly IP camera's. Not possible here. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by JoeyJoeC

[JoeyJoeC]

Chased them up about the complaint, they said they didn't receive it and told me to resend to their head office which I will do next. 

 

The address I sent it to before I'm sure was on their website but cannot find at all now. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by JoeyJoeC

[JoeyJoeC]

I didn't resend, but called today and they confirmed they have the letter and had scanned it on 08/04/19, and then done sod all else with it.

 

They're apparently dealing with it now. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by JoeyJoeC

[JoeyJoeC]

Someone from the service charging team called back, and then later emailed me a copy of all the service charging and explained that that each year they over estimate the charge and this year it will likely be £0. 

 

Thing is, it's never clear in our service charging what happens to the money that is overestimated. We do get a letter to explain how much we've over paid, but the new amounts never include the deductions. They've listed them here as "Recon", but we never see this. 

 

Quote

Following our earlier telephone conversation regarding the increases to the Estimated Service Charge for Clearance of Rubbish From Estate.

 

Please note that these are estimates and that Service Charge costs are actualised at the end of September – I have noted that Clarion has not actualised the costs for this service since 2015/16 (Estimate: £69.30 vs Actual: £5.43) so any underspent amount would be credited to your service charges account accordingly.

 

Therefore there are no invoices to provide as we do not actually charge you for this service. Please note the Actual Charges below – 2018/19 Actuals letter will be received by 30 September 2019 but based on these trends it will also be zero.

 

Service	2015/16	Estimate Charge	Actual Charge	Recon
2471	Clearance of Rubbish From Est	69.3	5.43	-63.87

 

Service	2016/17	Estimate Charge	Actual Charge	Recon
2471	Clearance of Rubbish From Est	84.6	0	-84.6
Service	2017/18	Estimate Charge	Actual Charge	Recon
2471	Clearance of Rubbish From Est	5.74	0	-5.74
Service	2018/19	Estimate Charge	Actual Charge	Recon
2471	Clearance of Rubbish From Est	6.71	0	-6.71
Service	2019/20	Estimate Charge	Actual Charge	Recon
2471	Clearance of Rubbish From Est	88.83	0	-88.83

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by JoeyJoeC

[king12345]

Estimate: £69.30 vs Actual: £5.43

That's over 10 times what you paid.

Please, read my threads linked above and start taking back YOUR money.

[JoeyJoeC]

Pretty sure that was when travellers moved in to the nearby building site and filled the entire place with rubbish. 

[stu007]

Hi

Post#11 Really the scanned it on 08/04/19 and only confirmed that after how long a period. They are in breach of their own Complaints Policy & Customer Care as you should have had some sort of response well before now.

 

Post#12 That is absolutely shocking so they over estimate with all service user and that money is in the HA bank account gaining interest for the HA but the service users benefit is this year is likely £0 service charge. You really need it insist that they provide you with a copy of there Rent and Service Charge Policy.

 

Remember if you followed my post#2 they have breach there complaint procedure and you now request that your complaint is dealt with as a Stage 2 complaint. (have they informed you what stage your complaint is being dealt with? if not then you challenge this as well as they should inform you what stage it is being dealt with)

 

Another question to ask the HA:

 

Clarification as to what action the HA Anti Social Behaviour Team have taken to date to resolve this Fly Tipping issue? 

 

(note the HA and Local Authority should be working together on this as fly tipping is illegal as both the HA and Local Authority should work together and set up CCTV to cover the area as it's the Local Authority that have the Powers to take the Fly Tippers to court & get police involved)

 

Also depending on where and what the fly tipping is it could also be classed as a Health & Safety risk and an Environmental Risk.