CP+ ANPR PCN - overstay+Wrong reg entered - WHITELEY SHOPPING CENTRE***Withdrawn***

[Beach Boy]

Back in November I went to Whiteley Shopping centre with my wife and 2 friends.  We were there to eat, shop and go to the cinema.  You are allowed 4 hours free parking and are also allowed to top this up to 6 hours for the cost of £2.  I purchased the additional 2 hours by putting my registration into the machine, putting in the £2 (supplied by my friend) and then received a very small receipt which I put in my pocket.

 

We went off, did everything and came home.

 

Two weeks later I received a PCN from CP Plus saying that I had overstayed the allotted free parking duration but did not state by how much.  There were two photographs showing my car entering and leaving with a time of 6 hours and 3 mins.  So to me I was 3 mins over my time.  The charge was £100 but if I paid within 14 days it would be £50.  I appealed to them straight away saying I had paid to extend my free stay and unfortunately the small receipt I got from the machine had long gone.  I asked them to interrogate the machine and to provide me a list of what cars paid around the time.  They ignored this and I received no reply.

 

I then went via POPLA to appeal my case.  It seems that this did weight my appeal but when asked to provide a list of cars that paid from a certain machine they sent one from a different one as my car registration was not on there.  I then re-appealed to POPLA explaining the mistake but then my appeal was rejected and was told I had 28 days to pay.  That was on March 5th.

 

I rang CP Plus and explained the problem and tried to get something from them but the girl on the other end of the phone failed to understand in simplr terms what I was asking so said to send an email.  I did this and waiting 3 weeks for a response.  I then resent another email a week ago but no reply again.

 

As I write this I have just over 24 hours to 'pay'.  I still want that information from that parking machine as I know I was right.  How can I force them to provide this information?  Just for my piece of mind at the end of the day even if I do give in and pay.

 

Thanks

 

[dx100uk]

had to remove the picture please post as a PDF next time

so you over stayed by 3mins effectively..

 

ifs that's the case then ignore them

there is a 10mins grace period.

 

dx

[Beach Boy]

Thanks

 

That's what I said but as I have no proof that I bought a ticket they default to the 'read the signs in the car park......entering a contract...agree to terms and conditions'

 

I need the data from the car park machine to validate my case.  Either the machine did not link to the cameras or I made a spelling error when typing it in.

 

 

[dx100uk]

topic title updated for clarity

 

stop using the phone!!

 

you paid you have evidence

the fact their ANPR system is useless or you typed in the wrong reg is immaterial.

you owe nothing.

you paid for 2hrs extra

there is a minimum 10mins grace period too.

 

dx

[honeybee13]

Thread moved to the private parking forum for further advice.

 

HB

[Bazooka Boo]

You owe nothing, and if Whitely wish to encourage their dwindling shoppers not only will they sack these clowns, but they'll sort out their horrendous road infrastructure too.

 

I'd complain to the management and tell them that if they fail to reign in these cowboys and scrap the invoice, you'll vote with your feet and never set foot in there again. 

[ericsbrother]

You paid so there was no breach of contract. The wrong number possibility may be true but is of no consequence.

As you have come here you clealry dont think you should pay so their timescales for demands then mean nothing.

I suggest that get soem decent pictures of the signage at the car aprk and of the payment machine. If the latter has its own blurb the we need to see that properly as that is the contrcat, not the signs in the car park.

you have already appealed so the paperwork is of secondary importance but post up the NTK you got through the post with your personal detail, car rge and their reference numbers obscured. We can then comment and advise accordingly but for the moment stop panicking abotu an arbitrary deadline

 

[Beach Boy]

Thanks for the advice so far everyone.  I'll post up the info as requested asap.

 

[Beach Boy]

Here are a copy of both the first and second letters from CP Plus and also the location of the machine and a close up photo.  Ironically the machine was faulty at the time.

cp plus letters.pdf Whiteley Car Park Machines.pdf

[Bazooka Boo]

Quote

 

Ha ha ha, they're soooooo dumb!!!!! 6hrs and three minutes!!

 

FAIL!

 

Hopefully they'll take this all the way and they can be embarrassed in court.

 

I'd send a copy of that to the manager of *hitely

[ericsbrother]

alos note the big blue sign next to the payment meter- that is your contract to park

 

Where on that sign does it say you will owe them a million quid if you overstay by a second?

it doesnt, there is no mention of any charge for breaches of contract because there is nothing there to offer.

 

The rest of the signs in the car park are worthless as far as the law goes.

same would apply of I put up a sign saying go to www.wasteofspace.con for terms and conditions.

if they arent there they dont apply.

Consumer Rights Act makes this clear if they dont understand the business they are in.

[Beach Boy]

Got another nice letter from them yesterday, they really are keen. It's now £140.

cp plus letter no 3.pdf

[brassnecked]

3 minute overstay is laughable, I would ignore them for now

[Beach Boy]

As they have been 'reluctant' to provide me with proof from their car park machine that I did not enter my registration I have now asked officially by letter quoting the 'subject access request' from CP Plus to what data they are holding on me.

[dx100uk]

no need for that.

not your problem

[ericsbrother]

As long as you understand they wont send you anything that incriminates themselves.

If they for example have the wrong address for you they will refuse to send you the data regarding that wrong address becasue it isnt you.

 

Utter cobblers of course but car reg numbers are an odd thing as they are not personal data in themselevs but the collection and processing of then allows you to be identified, wheater they bother to do anything else with that data so you will have to know exactly what the wrong reg was that you put into their machine and show that it is linked to you and no-one else

[Beach Boy]

I have just been given the full access via a SAR to the POPLA appeal. 

CP Plus has provided a print from 'a' parking payment machine' in the same car park but my registration is not on there and nothing even close to mine. Whether the two machines share the same data is the question I have raised but have had no reply.

 

So the only hard evidence I have of actually buying a ticket a my word, my friend's testimony who provided payment and witnessed me getting the receipt (now lost) and both our wives who saw us stood by the machine but did not witness anything else.

I now await the SAR from CP Plus and hopefully data from the right machine.

 

[ericsbrother]

It wont include data that isnt yours so if you punched in the wrong reg they cant send you the data ( well they can if you are the subject of the processing of the incorrect data)

 

Now if the wromg reg was someone else's then what should happen is that there will be a mismatch on the ANPR and the ticket machine inputs so they will have a payment for XYZ123 and anpr of ABC 789.

they arent going to get the details of the former and send them £2 back are they?

 

So, IF it comes to them trying their luck at court you will have to ask for alist of all the car reg's captured on ANPR that day and a list of all the payment machine reg inputs.

 

they know there will be a mismatch so wont want to show that their system is designed to rob people and then allow them to rob them again rather than rejecting an incorrect input into the payement machine because it doesnt match the ANPR data.

 

All this from a company that cant even tell Companies House who actually owns and runs the business as required by law

[Beach Boy]

Well I had a nice reply from CP Plus and as ericsbrother said they won't give anything away. (see attached)

 

Going by their initial report to the POPLA appeal, the evidence did not show my registration off their machine or anything even close and this is what they would show if it went to court.

 

I cannot prove that I did what I did so I either back down and pay under protest or wait for them to take it farther and stress over it.

 

Thanks for all your advice so far, it was much appreciated

cp PLUS REPLY SAR.pdf

[ericsbrother]

they can only make money if you wet your pants and give them the dosh.

other than that they can make a lot of noise,

send out nasty letters and try their luck at court but ultimately only you can decide of they get paid or not.

 

Stress?

it really isnt that stressful once you have been there more than once and everyone should try and see the inside of a courtroom so it can be shown how relaxed the entire proceedings are.

 

the arguing takes place outside in the little side rooms if there are sticking ppints to be argued and in things like parking claims there isnt reason for that so all straightforward

[Beach Boy]

Am pleased to say that after sending several emails to the shops and also the Whiteley Shopping Centre management they managed to get the PCN dropped after all this time. So it proves that they can withdraw the PCN at any time so don't give in.

 

Thanks for all he posts and advice.

[lookinforinfo]

That is good news-well done. Thank you for coming back and letting us know-it should help others in a similar boat to you. In case the same thing happens again we usually advise that you write a letter as opposed to an email. Letters usually get to the hierarchy  more often than the lesser human beings that receive emails. It also prevents the parking company to use your email in future to gain an advantage over you if a Court case is possible.

[BankFodder]

Great news. Thanks for letting us know. This is helpful information for everyone in a similar situation

[FTMDave]

Well done on your victory!

[brassnecked]

Excellent.