Backdoor CCJ UKCPM windscreen residential PCN - opps i moved!!

[Manmeet]

Hi, I have received a similar Gladstone solicitor letter 4 days back asking me to pay up £160 to their client UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT. I would pay but I strongly feel that they have been unfair and beyond common sense to charge me the fine.

 

I had taken up an apartment on rent in a private complex and as a resident, I am authorized to park in my complex. The day I moved in I parked my car in front of my apartment building and went to my estate office to collect my resident parking token. When I returned after a few minutes I saw a parking fine sticking on my windscreen.

 

I wrote back to the parking company with a copy of my parking token explaining that I had moved in on the very morning. They, however, chose to ignore that and wrote back that since the car did not have a parking token at the time so I have to pay the fine. I have that email evidence and feel that they are acting like daylight robbers.

 

What do I do with this legal notice from Gladstone as I don't wish to go to court to fight ? Pls help.................

[Manmeet]

Hi, I have received a similar Gladstone solicitor letter 4 days back asking me to pay up £160 to their client UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT. I would pay but I strongly feel that they have been unfair and beyond common sense to charge me the fine. I had taken up an apartment on rent in a private complex and as a resident, I am authorized to park in my complex. The day I moved in I parked my car in front of my apartment building and went to my estate office to collect my resident parking token. When I returned after a few minutes I saw a parking fine sticking on my windscreen. I wrote back to the parking company with a copy of my parking token explaining that I had moved in on the very morning. They, however, chose to ignore that and wrote back that since the car did not have a parking token at the time so I have to pay the fine. I have that email evidence and feel that they are acting like daylight robbers. What do I do with this legal notice from Gladstone as I don't wish to go to court to fight ? Pls help.................

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

That sounds like a fairly standard Gladstones letter if the amount, which is usually made up, is £160. How have they reached the figure of £160 please, how is it broken down?

 

We'll need to know what your lease says about parking in order to advise you. Could you type up the clauses to do with parking for us?

 

Best, HB

[Manmeet]

Hi HB, the fine was £100 on 23rd Aug 2018 was £100 which has now escalated to £160. I will look into the lease agreement and reply shortly.

Rgds,

Manmeet

[Ethel Street]

2 hours ago, Manmeet said:

 The day I moved in I parked my car in front of my apartment building and went to my estate office to collect my resident parking token. When I returned after a few minutes I saw a parking fine sticking on my windscreen.

 

 

Did you complain to the Estate Office? I'd ask them to intervene given these rather uncommon circumstances. Although you may have left it a bit late if it was last August.

[Manmeet]

Hi Ethel, I did talk to the estate office then and they told me that they have no jurisdiction in dictating any cancellation as the complex was contracted to this company. They did, however, gave personal advice of not paying this company and ignore the letter for claiming fine. 

[Gick]

Before certain regulars have apoplexy, this is not a fine!. Unfortunately many people, including most of the media call these speculative invoices 'fines' which tends to wrongly legitamize them. Only a court has the power to fine anyone.

Please answer the following to enable advice specific to your situation:-

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement?

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?]

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company?

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

.............................

[dx100uk]

topic title updated for clarity..

 

is the letter titled..letter before/of claim?

[brassnecked]

Could you post up a scan of the letter as a pdf, if Letter before claim there should be  a way to rebut it, as a PCN within a couple of minutes is ludicrous, also these muppets would put a PCN on a  liveried DPD or FedEx van delivering to the block they are that greedy and stupid

[Manmeet]

Hi, I have uploaded the Gladstone Letter I received. I have cut out my address details from top. Kindly advise.

 

[dx100uk]

please don't post up unreadcted documents

you can be identified by ref and reg numbers.

ive removed it

its not a letter of claim or before action so safe to ignore

please read UPLOAD

and properly redact things then post as a PDF ONLY.

 

can you answer the questions in post 6 please

[lookinforinfo]

You received good advice from the Estate office. These parking companies are called in to deter non authorised vehicles from parking. But most tickets are actually placed on Residents vehicles since that is the only way the crooks can make money.

They know you are in the right but they just cannot see their way to cancel the ticket.  do not appeal or write to them and they should eventually give up. Not before they call in their unregulated debt collectors and often ending with a begging letter and reducing their demand to around 100 pound again as if they are doing you a favour when you never owed them a penny in the first place.

[ericsbrother]

wew would like to see the signage at the site and specifical;ly any sign at the exact spot your car was parked at the time. In most residential parking  issues the signage isnt actually a contract to park so they cant claim money from you. When we see the wording on the signage we will tell you all about the differences.

 

As for the letter from Gladstones, you will need to respond at some point but bear this in mind, the two solicitors who own Gladstones also own the IPC, the trade association that UKPC belong to. Now UKPC have the worst reputation of any parking co in england and both parties know that the chances of successfully suing you is almost zero.

 

so picturs of the signs and also as you got a ticket slapped on the car sight of all the paperwork you have received so far will help us enormously. Redact your personal details but leave the date and times visible and also remove any of their reference numbers, bar codes etc.

[Manmeet]

Thanks, i will remember not to post any image in future.

 

1 The date of infringement?    23 Aug 2018

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] - Y  I wrote to the parking company within 30 min of receiving the fine and sent them the new parking token that was issued the same time when they were sticking the fine on my car. The company told me to appeal. On 28th Aug I registered my appeal and I got a response that the adjudicators will assess and respond in 28 days. After that, they started sending letters through the post and did not accept my evidence as they claimed that at the time there was no token and the car was illegally parked.

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? I parked in front on mu building within my gated complex.

[Manmeet]

I will send a photo of the parking signage once I reach home today. Thanks for your time in helping me out. A similar mistake was done by Richmond council in my previous address where I had bought a car in the evening and parked it outside my house with a clear notice inside my car that I have applied for parking permit. The fine was slapped but Council was inf enough to cancel it, and yet these parking company want to rob me.

 

[ericsbrother]

the company want to rob you because that is the only way they earn any money Richmond council enforce parking as it is for the public good so they want to change how you park rather than just grab money. well, in theory anyway, shame Westminster, Croydon, Harrow  and Barnet dont understand this part fo the law

[Manmeet]

Hi Gick, hope I have answered most of your questions in post #6 ?

[ericsbrother]

as you appealed right away they dont ahve to send out any letters to a timetable.

We will need to know the exact location as we will look at the entrance to the land and any signage visible from the public highway to determine whether there was an actual "offer". Having lots of littel signs scattered about will be meaningless if peopel dont knwo they are being offered a contract to ENTER the land

[Manmeet]

Hi, I have attached the photo of the signage. First is a close up and the second is the distance from where I parked my car (approx). Pls advise. Each tower in teh complex has this signage screwed to the wall. There are no other posts or poles on the street inside the complex.

Signage.pdf

[Manmeet]

Hi Eric, Pls read below car park section of my lease.........

16. Car Parking

    1. 1.17.1  To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property.

    2. 1.17.2  To park in the space, garage or driveway allocated to the Property (if any)

    3. 1.17.3  To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.

    4. 1.17.4  To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.

    5. 1.17.5  Not to park any vehicle at the Property which is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.

 

Hope this will help.

[ericsbrother]

so no big sign at the entrance to  offer you the terms for parking there.

 

These smaller signs are unlikley to be good enough  as they are not readable by the driver of a vehicle from the normal driving position and I would surmise that if you only have them sited as seen then  a claim that the unilateral contract has been brought to the attention of the driver is manifestly untrue. I would also bet they have no planning permission for them.

 

Now your tenancy/lease makes it clar that you park in your allocated spot IF AN ALLOCATION HAS BEEN MADE Now i read this as you may thus park in any common area without such an allocation and that applies to visitors as well.  Also if you park in someone else's spot that is a matter between you and the space owner, not the parking co so it makes you wonder what exactly they do that is beneficial to anyone other than themselves ( that is a question that can be asked at any place they have been let loose) I wold also surmise that the head lease itself will go into detail of which parking space belongs to your property and what could happen if you ignore the conditions so please ask your landlord

 

So how do delivery vehicles/removal pantechnicons etc apply for permission to park?  If t is via the porter's/concierge's lodge then the power over who parks isnt the parking co but the estate management so they have misled you and should ahve got the bandits to cancel.

 

Does the pallce employ managing agents or are the staff employed directly by the freeholder ( rare these days) Chances are the that the contract isnt good enough to show locus standi for court action to claim money from you.

 

Have you still got the parking token by any chance? is there a register of when they are issued and to whom ( obviously useful for the removals people and the like).

 

Now the next step is to consider what you want to do about this. You will ahve noticed that the original charge is for £100 and they have added imaginary costs on to this sum because they feel like it. As you appealed as the driver it may be legal for them to do so but they wouild have to justify the amoutn and all they will do is say that Gladstones have billed them £60 for writing a letter.

 

I would write back to them and say that  "I deny that any monies are owed to your  client as there was no contract offered for me to breach. You know very well that the signage there isnt worth a light as there is no planning consent for it so one cannot enter into a criminal compact with UKCPM.  As the parking world's most famous lawyers you should know this and advise your client to stop wasting their money"

 

now they may or may not take this into consideration but it creates a paper trail to show that they have acted unreasonably if they do try their luck with a court claim, Gladstones seem to want their clients to go for it because as the IPC in another hat they have a vested interest in looking hard but the reality si they file rubbish claims and lose any well defended claims and just copst their clients money for nothing so many of them drop the matter when it looks like you are up for a fight.

 

Read about past claims and you will see they drop a lot just before it gets to an actual hearing as they hope that you waver first and pay them without a proper fight. thsui tactic menas they often file late and you get a costs order for their bad behaviour

[Manmeet]

Hi Eric, thanks for your detailed opinion.

 

For a start, there is no rule from estate management regarding which bay to park.

All residents can park in any empty bay within the complex as there are no bays assigned to apartment owners.

Even the ones who have a garage also park in bays as they use the garage as stores.

 

The services people who come are normally required to collect a temporary token from the state office and sometimes they don't care and park as the vehicle is clearly marked with a brand name. 

 

The complete contract, to my knowledge, has been given to CPM and the estate guy told me that they have no control over who they fine as the estate cannot interfere.

It could be a farce but that's what I was told.

 

The parking token is a token that we stick inside our car windshield and I have that with me from the day the fine was charged.

the token does not show the start date but it says DUPLICATE since the original one was to be handed over by the previous tenant to my letting agents and which they never bothered.

 

i can ask the estate office if they did keep a record of which date it was given.

Regardless, I was a bonafide resident who had legal rights to park.

 

Can you pls share the contents of what I must write to Gladstone as they have mentioned in their letter to contact the client and not them.

[ericsbrother]

I'm sorry but you have misunderstood what I have said regarding the management of the estate.

I mean who do the concierge and other staff work for, not who does the parking - we know that already. 

 

So who issues the temporary tokens?

If it is the staff employed by the landlord or management co then that menas they have the right to overrule the parking co and you can say that your agreement to stop outside your building trumps their contract.

 

Someone owns the land and it isnt UKCPM, the garages will be part of someones lease and parking spaces may or may not be

 

As for the letter send what I suggested to Gladstones and ignore their instructiosn as that is for sending them cash and you arent going to do that.

 

By writing to Gladdys  as they atre the IPC as well then they will know you atre sticking two fingers up to them and their organisation as they cant get things right even with the help od a couple of solicitors.

 

[Manmeet]

Let me find out about management but I believe that all staff is employed by the estate and landlord monthly fees most likely cover that.  I will speak to the president of the resident organization who is living in my building. For the time being, I will not respond to Gladdy's letter and stay away till their next move.

[dx100uk]

can you show us where they use the word FINE please?