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Patch011

Smart parking Ltd. PCN- ANPR- Havens bank retail park, Exeter

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Hi, I've just got home from uni for Easter and discovered a letter for a 'charge notice'.  I was kinda nervous and shocked I didn't see any signs but researching brought me here where there is experience on this actual carpark. I was waiting for a friend for 26 mins but his phone had died and he had already left the bowling alley.  I didn't even get out the car. Here's the info asked from previous people. 

 

1 Date of the infringement   20/3/2019

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]  27/3/2019

   3 Date received  29/3/2019

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N

  5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes photos of entry and exit with time stamps. 

 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] No

post up your appeal] Have you had a response? [Y/N?] 

  7 Who is the parking company? Smart parking

  8. Where exactly, havens bank retail park Exeter

   For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.   There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. BPA. 

 

I have a question about the appeals and whether to send a generic appeal like shown below or just not pay the charge with no correspondence.  I've seen mentioned that the wording of this letter addressed to me doesn't allow 'keeper liability' pfa 2012  to stand through the popla appeals. 

 

Re PCN number: 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.: - If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

  - If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note: Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully, 

 

Any advice would be amazing, thanks!

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pers we don't advocate appealing at all ….certainly not yet ...if at all.

 

can you scan up the full PCN to one multipage PDF 

read upload.

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Thanks for the fast reply! I'm pretty sure that's all points covered. I kinda don't understand why you don't advocate appealing, can I still appeal through popla without a code from my appeals undoubted rejection from smart parking. Am I missing something? to see if this can be thrown out or have I really got to have six years of waiting because I don't want to fund these cowboys. thanks soo much for the advise. 

Doc2.pdf

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Yep awesome, and I thought I found a lot on google 😂. Thanks. I will abstain the appeals and keep you informed if any change happens, but from reading previous threads they seem to eventually stop the mail harassment. thanks again

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There are many reasons why not to appeal and also not to appeal too early. Let's start off with the appeal you were going to send on post 1. [Well done by the way for doing some research first].

These crooks issue hundreds of tickets each day and most only take about 10% of those to Court and ok a fair number of people do pay up straight away. So the crooks have to decide which people to take to Court. They know that most of their tickets were issued incorrectly and wouldn't stand up in Court but they do have the effect of frightening or shaming people into paying. So the ones who do not respond are perhaps the ones who are not scared to ignore the demands so who else can they pick on. That's right- those who have put their heads above the parapet and appealed. 

When I was in sales, if anyone said straight away-"I am not going to make a decision today" what they are really saying in most cases is that I am a pushover and although I do not want to make that decision today, I know that I will make it if the sales rep is good enough. So to appeal in the eyes of the crooks is to say that although I do not want or think I should pay, if I get pushed/scared enough I will pay. They also have an up to date address for you-and with luck, maybe a email address. 

For similar reasons, do not mention whether you were the driver or not and that you are not going to disclose who was. If you do have to write, just say that you are the registered keeper and obviously avoid saying that "I" parked or "I" did something since using I is a dead giveaway that you were the driver.

So given that by appealing has given them a reason to pursue you all the way to Court  the last thing you should do is to tell them where their parking ticket has gone wrong You telling them ." Insufficient  detail" is no problem for them-now they know you know they have plenty of time to concoct a reason for the ticket, prove it by stating a Court case and demand a higher sum. That would frighten many into paying up there and then. 

 

Bear in mind that you are dealing with crooks who always use threats of their own so threatening to complain to the landowner/MP when you have already said that the claim against you is too vague is hardly going to scare them since there may well be a valid reason why a ticket was issued just that they haven't as yet divulged it. Their ticket wordings often cover a multitude of infringements and if people pay up then, there is little reason for them to print different versions of possible offences when one will do.

Also if you do not write to them they often keep their pre Court notifications vague too which helps in your defence against them and is then often too late for them to make amendments.

 

Another reason for not appealing is that you do not as yet know just how bad their claim is. It can take several weeks before you know what is wrong with their Notice to Driver [if there was one] ditto for their Notice to keeper and their Reminder. We have not seen their signs which are often conflicting or forbidding which means they cannot form a contract with the driver. We do not know if they have planning permission from the local council to erect their signs nor install cameras.Then you hang on to that information until it is needed. Why waste time writing a long winded letter [like this one] pointing out why they have no chance in Court when they were probably never going to take you to Court in the first place.

Just get on with your life ignoring all their threats [unless it is a Court threat -then come back to us] and bear in mind that they use unregulated debt collectors who often unlawfully add extra charges to boot. They can safely be ignored =my dead cat has more power than them.

PS well done for including that bit about kelvin Reynolds from the BPA

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Havens bank is a well known problem car park. the cameras dot work properly and the payment machines are often out of order and the sigage at the actual entarnce is impossibe to spot and utter gibberish if you can find it.

 Smart know all of this and often cancel charges when they money grabbing is exposed but I would recommend that you immerse yourself in a lot of threads about private parking to begin with so you understand that it is all about contracts and not parking and then just ignore them at this stage.

 

If you want to have a go at someone then find out the address of the site manager's office and give them some stick but dont use email at all for any of this or it will just get forwarded to Smart and they will use it to harass you for free.

 

I wouldnt send your proposed letter as it contains things that just arent true.

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