PCM Ltd Brentford Lock - Parking ticket

[Pcmhater]

Hi there

 

I was issued with a parking ticket by PCM when parked in the Brenford Lock gated community flats visitors parking bay. I was an airbnb guest of a resident of Adams quarter building. I had been issued with a day permit by my host which i displayed on the dash.

 

Unfortunately I left my drivers side window wide open accidentally and I can only assume that the wind blew the permit onto the passenger seat which is where i found it when I went to leave in the morning. The permit was clearly visible face up on the passenger seat of my car when I left in the morning. 

 

There are 7 pictures taken by the warden - none of which show the passenger seat. No coincidence surely.?

 

My car was covered in snow and soaking wet due to the window being wide open all night. The ticket was issued withing 30 minutes of my arrival. ANY DECENT human would surely have alerted me to the fact that my car was unsecured and getting soaked etc by buzzing the door of the flat i was staying in, All the details re where i was staying were visible on the permit and the entrance to the clock was 4 metres from my car !

 

I appealed to PCM which was rejected and then appealed to the independent adjudicator who offered sympathy but also rejected the appeal on the grounds that the permit was not displayed correctly.  

 

I could pay the £100 but i'm loathed to give these sharks £100 of my money when I WAS FULLY ENTITLED TO BE PARKED THERE. And the circumstances re the pictures etc and knowing that it could have been avoided with a touch of common decency by the warden or PCM in considering the circumstances which were fully explained in my appeal. 

 

What are my chances if i ignore the letter rejecting the appeal and wait for the inevitable solicitors letter. Do I risk a court summons? I'm worried about ending up with a CCJ against me. 

 

Your soonest advice appreciated

 

Regads

 

The 

 

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I've moved your thread to the private parking forum, the guys will be along later to advise you.

 

Best, HB

[FTMDave]

Don't worry, you won't be paying a penny.

 

You can only get a CCJ

   if they formally threaten legal action through a LBA

   then take you to court

   then you lose in court

   then you still refuse to pay.

 

You're not even at the first stage yet, so relax!

 

Can you post your appeals up, obviously with your personal details redacted?  It's important to know whether your identified yourself as the driver or not in these appeals.

[Pcmhater]

Hi there FMT Dave

 

Thank you for your reply -  sounds encouraging. I will post my appeals later as have to rush out. Im pretty certain that I did identify myself as the driver but will post them anyway.

 

May I ask what qualifies you to offer this opinion. Have you had a similar issue? or do you have some professional experience with this type of thing - Thank you

 

[FTMDave]

My experience is purely amateur.  I did work in a solictor's office for a couple of months and in the legal department of a company for a year & a half, both way back in the 80s, but that's all.  I understand how the court system works in an amateur way and have learnt a hell of a lot from the experts on this forum since I joined.  I've never had a run-in with a PPC, but I have had with countless other would-be fleecers, and it invariably goes like this:

   1.  they threaten me with vast court costs, my son being sold into slavery, me ending up being hung, drawn & quartered, etc.

   2.  I ignore their rubbish or challenge them to do their worst.

   3.  Absolutely nothing happens.

 

That's why I'm used to hearing about the silly threats which are usually from paper tigers.

 

If you identified yourself as the driver it was a mistake (read up on the POFA law) so learn for the future, but don't panic at all, the experts will be on soon with lots of other ways to see off the charlatans.  

[honeybee13]

4 hours ago, Pcmhater said:

Hi there FMT Dave

 

Thank you for your reply -  sounds encouraging. I will post my appeals later as have to rush out. Im pretty certain that I did identify myself as the driver but will post them anyway.

 

May I ask what qualifies you to offer this opinion. Have you had a similar issue? or do you have some professional experience with this type of thing - Thank you

 

 

Everyone here is a volunteer, which is how we can offer free advice. A lot of people on the private parking forum have had problems like you have and they've taken the time to understand how PPCs work so they can advise other people and help them not to pay out money they don't need to.

 

HB

[Pcmhater]

Understood HB. Thank you.

 

[ericsbrother]

you also need to understand that Bryn Holloway, the IAS adjudicator is not an honest broker. There is nothing in law that says you displayed the ticket incorrectly but he will ALWAYS find on behalf of the company that pays his salary regardless of how unlawful their activity or tenuous their claim

Edited April 1, 2019 by ericsbrother

[Pcmhater]

OK - thanks Ericsbrother and FTMdave. I cant seem to get a copy of my appeal to PCM. However - im pretty sure i did ID myself as the driver as I said before. 

Here is a copy of the IAS appeal decision - and below it is a letter from Trace Dept recovery saying I have untill the 15th April to cough up face further action.

 

Any further comments or advice from others that are happy to help me are much appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

 

Appeal Outcome: Dismissed
The Adjudicators comments are as follows:

"The Appellant should understand that the Adjudicator is not in a position to give legal advice to either of the parties but they are entitled to seek their own independent legal advice. The Adjudicator's role is to consider whether or not the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each individual case. In all Appeals the Adjudicator is bound by the relevant law applicable at the time and is only able to consider legal challenges and not factual mistakes nor extenuating or mitigating circumstances. Throughout this appeal the Operator has had the opportunity consider all points raised and could have conceded the appeal at any stage. The Adjudicator who deals with this Appeal is legally qualified and each case is dealt with according to their understanding of the law as it applies and the legal principles involved. A decision by an Adjudicator is not legally binding on an Appellant who is entitled to seek their own legal advice if they so wish.

The Operator has provided evidence of the signs at the site, which make it clear any driver parking in a visitor bay without fully displaying a valid visitor permit or scratch card in the windscreen, will be issued with the parking charge notice.

The Appellant claims that they had a valid permit and provides evidence of the same. In this case it is maintained by the Appellant that their permit must have become dislodged in the prevailing weather conditions so as to have made it impossible to read any key information from it. I am satisfied that the Appellant has the responsibility of ensuring that if they possess a permit that it is secured to the windscreen in such a way that it will remain in place and display all the key information to anybody wishing to check the parked vehicles. I am also satisfied that the signage made it clear to the Appellant that if the parking permit was not properly displayed a Parking Charge Notice would be issued.

As a genuine permit holder the Appellant has my sympathy, but the guidance to the appeal is clear that I may only consider legal issues not extenuating circumstances. The Operator has provided photographic evidence of the Appellant's vehicle parked on the land they manage, and without a permit displayed. The appeal is dismissed.
"

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.
As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

You should contact the operator within 14 days to make payment of the charge. 
Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.
Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service

[lookinforinfo]

Trace are breaking all the rules of debt collection.

Not only are they assuming that the speculative invoice is actually owed but they are acting as Judge and Jury by thinking that you will lose in Court. And whatever you do in Court [eg win] you will still get a CCJ!

 

That really is a disgrace and it's the second such letter I have read from them on this Forum in the past week.

It has to be nipped in the bud since the whole letter is nothing but a collection of lies.

 

Losing to the "Independent"Adjudicator [yeah right] is meaningless since virtually no one wins against them.

It does not prove that those who lose are guilty or owe any money.

 

It is unlikely PCM will take you to Court as they know they have lost other cases for the same reason as they are pursuing you.

 

Unless you fail to turn up in Court you will win your case so no CCJ will be issued.

If you don't turn up and you get a CCJ all you have to do is pay it off within a month and the CCJ is erased.

 

A complaint to the FCA about Trace's letter is merited as there will be some people will believe the rubbish and pay up.

[brassnecked]

They would be stupid to try court with this, that letter from Trace looks like their latest version of a ThreatOgram designed to lie and cheat money from people that owe nothing.

[Pcmhater]

Ok - so do you think I should respond to the trace letter to inform them that I have no intention of paying the fine? or just do nothing. If they know that im willing o go to court might they back off ?

 

 

[FTMDave]

It's not a fine, private companies don't have the power to fine anyone.  It's a spurious demand for money from conmen.

 

I'm sure the experts will advise no communication with Trace, like any DCA.  It's not their debt, so they can't take you to court, in fact they have as much power as the dead spider I hoovered up this afternoon.

[ericsbrother]

you NEVER respond to a letter from a dca, they have no interest in anything. Read up on dca's in the debt forums and you will see 100000 posts telling you why.

knowledge is power, they rely on your ignorance to earn a hishonest crust. Why do you think they are aksing for £160 for example? the short answer is because they know they will get away with this a lot of the time but if they asked for over £200 no-one would ever pay up