The PRS (yet again)

[Buncrana]

Hi Folks,

 

I wonder if you can give me some advice re the above.

 

My partner and I run a small pub, just over 80 square metres.

 

We have live music once a week.

 

In December, the PRS/PPL sent through, what I thought, was a rather high demand of just under £1000 for us to have live music.

 

I queried this cost by email. I got the auto response of a reply within 48 hours. That never happened.

 

I have emailed them about ten times now. I have phoned them but no one answers.

 

I just want someone within the organisation to justify such an amount for such a small pub.

 

They have now referred it to Credit Security Ltd.

 

Now, I should say that I fully support what they do, and I have no objection to paying a reasonable amount. We fully support live music in our local area, and will continue to do so.

 

I have spoken to landlords of similar sized pubs, who do the same as we do. The vast majority pay round £500 p/a, which I think is reasonable.

 

So, where do I go from here?

 

I have a company who won't talk to me and have now set the dogs on our business.

 

Do I contact Credit Security? I loathe debt collection agencies with a passion after being on the receiving end of them for years. Do I tell them this account is in dispute? Are they and in house collection company?

 

Can the PRS/PPL demand payment? I can't find anything online to say that they can.

 

Any help or advice would be gratefully appreciated

 

Regards,

 

Buncrana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

No you ignore CSL

A DCA is not a BAILIFF

 

Deal with prs only

[Buncrana]

3 hours ago, dx100uk said:

No you ignore CSL

A DCA is not a BAILIFF

 

Deal with prs only

Thanks DX, you've been a big help in the past

 

If PRS are refusing to answer phone calls or emails, where does that leave me?

 

And can they legally demand this money, or any money from our business?

[dx100uk]

They quite pos can

Why not use webchat

they must have a website?

 

[Buncrana]

After 7 emails and countless phone calls, I actually managed to talk to someone today.

 

Apparently there is legislation that they use to charge premises, but he was unsure exactly what.

 

They don't give refunds, as they are a non profit organisation. (I was astounded at that).

 

The bill has come down, but not by much.

 

And a rep is coming to see me to discuss our options.

 

Oh and the dogs have been called off for two weeks.

 

I'm still none the wiser if ,legally, we have to pay it. I'd be very curious to know if they can enforce. I can't find anything online about enforcement of not having, or not paying, their license fee. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places.

 

 

[Buncrana]

Here we go again...

 

Last had contact with PRS/PPL when they promised to send a rep out to our pub to see what we do and to discuss our bill on 27th March this year. (See above post.)

 

No one has been in contact and, tbh, I haven't chased them up on it.

 

Roll on to today when I had a call from Credit Security asking how I was going to pay them almost £800 for the outstanding balance to PRS.

 

I asked if they had a court order etc, knowing full well what the answer would be.

 

So I'm now going to try and contact PRS, again, to see where we stand.

 

I still don't know if they can demand this money legally, and can't find anything online that says so. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

 

 

[dx100uk]

stop talking to csl.

TBH if they are using powerless DCA's it makes me wonder how legit their whole idea you owe money is?

if you legally DID then why are they not going straight to court one wonders?

 

any evidence of that on the net PPS/PPL issuing claimforms?

 

i'm not around my server for a while today so limited in my scope of searching.

 

[Buncrana]

Hi Dx, I only spoke to them as I didn't know who they were and what they wanted.

It was a only when they mentioned PRS that I told them to remove my details as, unless they had a court order, I would not be dealing with them.

 

I've spoken to PRS and they can get this money under the Copyright, Design and Patents Act of 1988 apparently.

 

We had a long discussion and the bill has come down by a third but I'm still not 100% sure they can demand this.

 

I'll do a bit more digging when I can.

 

I found this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright,_Designs_and_Patents_Act_1988#Copyright_Tribunal

 

Main article: Copyright Tribunal

The Act establishes the Copyright Tribunal as a continuation of the tribunal established under s. 23 of the 1956 Act (s. 145).^[27] The Tribunal is empowered (s. 149) to hear and determine proceedings concerning: 

• copyright licensing schemes;
• royalties for rental of sound recordings, films or computer programs;
• licences made available as of right under s. 144 (powers of the Monopolies and Mergers Commission under the Fair Trading Act 1973 c. 41);
• the refusal of a performer to give consent under his rights in performances;
• royalties under the perpetual copyright of "Peter Pan" (see below).

An appeal on any point of law lies to the High Court, or to the Court of Session under Scots law.

[Buncrana]

Hi everyone,

 

We run a small pub in which we used to have live bands and a juke box.

 

Over the years we have been running the pub we've had various issues with the PRS.

 

Now I should say at the outset that we fully support what the PRS do. We have no objections in artists and bands getting paid for songs they have written..

 

In the past they have tried to overcharge us, wouldn't give refunds when they were due, and I even had one of their staff shouting down the phone at me when he couldn't tell me the legislation that they charge us these ridiculous amounts.

 

We closed our doors by government order on the 20th March 2020 and we reopened on the 6th July.

 

We have been playing email tennis since around August where they are demanding a full years PRS money, just over £500, which they have yet to quantify.

 

I have also made it clear in every email that we will not, under any circumstances be paying them for our enforced closure and to recalculate the amount they are demanding.

 

They have said we need to pay the full year and that any extra will be credited to our account for next year.

 

Under the current circumstances, we don't even know if we'll still have a business after Christmas.

 

A couple of days ago we got the ''7 days to pay'' letter dated 25th October, saying that we must make ''full and immediate payment'' or it will be going to a third party, who I am assuming is a DCA.

 

Where do we stand here?

 

We have a company that won't engage and only make demands for money for something that we could do nothing about.

 

I'm at my wits end with them.

 

I'm sorely tempted to ride this one out and see if it ends up in a court case but that will be time consuming for us.

 

I should also say that, due to Covid, we no longer have live music and only have the tv on BBC News 24. There is a jukebox there but when they came to empty it the other day, there was one single pound in it.

 

Any suggestions?

[dx100uk]

no dca has any legal powers and are not bailiffs on any debt

 

ignore them

stand your ground.

 

dx

 

[Buncrana]

Hi Dx,

 

That's what I'm thinking.

 

I've told DCA's where to go in the past. PRS set one win us last year. They called up but once I told them the account was in dispute I never heard from them again.

 

I suppose it's a waiting game now.

 

We're shut down for at least a month so I have the time on my hands..

[Buncrana]

Two emails and a phone call from the DCA in one day.

 

They can't have too much on :)

 

Phone number now blocked...

[dx100uk]

[Buncrana]

It's been a while but I thought I'd better update the thread.

 

A couple more emails threatening court action, DCA's threatening court action, usual stuff.

 

So I thought I'd give them one final call before I sat back and awaited the aforementioned court action.

 

The person on the other end of the phone could not have been more helpful.

 

Completely understood the issue and went straight into the ''let's sort this out once and for all mode''...

 

We ended up paying just over a quarter of what the original demands were.

 

It was a sum that I thought was entirely reasonable, and justified.

 

So, it was paid there and then.

 

It hasn't been fun running a pub lately, especially with all the parasites and vultures we're having to deal with just now, including a Pubco who want full rent for the first lockdown but only 10 percent for this one. Work that one out...

 

So well done PRS for finally seeing the light