bus lane PCN - now bailiffs back after failed appeal - help! £30 now +£400

[sunnytoday]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can advise me please.

Last month, I received a Notice of enforcement from Jacobs.
It was for a bus lane fine from Jan 2018. I had not been aware of the fine nor sent it in the post.

I called the council straight away and was asked to fill out forms PE2 & PE3, get them witnessed and returned, which I did the next day.

Yesterday I received a letter saying the appeal had been rejected.
I am absolutely devastated, the original fine was £30, the bailiffs are asking for £408.
I called the council and this has already been transferred back to bailiffs.
I called Citizens Advice and they're calling be back on Monday.

I want to pay the original fine and not the bailiff's fees, is there any way to do that?
I'm a single parent and last Friday I was let go of from my job due to restructuring, this couldn't have come at a worse time.

Any advice?

Thanks

[Ethel Street]

Is the address registered for your car with DVLA - ie, the address shown on the V5C document, the log book - the address where you have been living since January 2018? If you have moved and not told DVLA that would explain why you hadn't received anything.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Ethel Street

[sunnytoday]

Yes, I moved and it was absolutely my fault for not updating DVLA. Naively, I updated my driving licence straight away and thought it was one and the same. After talking to people about this, I now realise it's not and was a huge mistake on my part.

[dx100uk]

 

topic title updated for clarity

 

don't think theres anything you can do sadly.

no-one else bar you have made a mistake.

 the NOE did have your current address on it?

 

 

[sunnytoday]

Yes, the NOE does have my current address on it.

 

I understand I made a mistake but £408 is a high price to pay for a £30 fine.

Thanks for your help.

[dx100uk]

the NOE was £75

then they came in person so that's another £235

should be £310 + the org fine though I think.

 

dx

 

[sunnytoday]

So that's the thing - they never came in person.

The letter says the fine was £98, total £408.

 

But it was the very first letter to me in this address - where did they go in person and can they just charge me for that? Don't they have to prove they did?

 

I live in a large apartment building, they would really struggle to actually get to me.

[dx100uk]

ok good a bit more info.

 

the experts should be around later.

[Bailiff Advice]

1 hour ago, sunnytoday said:

Yes, I moved and it was absolutely my fault for not updating DVLA. Naively, I updated my driving licence straight away and thought it was one and the same. After talking to people about this, I now realise it's not and was a huge mistake on my part.

 

Unfortunately, Out of Time witness statements and statutory declarations are applications that motorists submit to the Traffic Enforcement Centre without so much as knowing what these applications are for and what information should be recorded on them.

 

In simple terms, an Out of Time Statutory Declaration is a request for consideration to be given to CANCELLING the debt registration (including bailiff fees) because something had gone wrong at an earlier stage (such as; documentation being sent to a wrong address). 

 

If the application is accepted, the local authority will then issue a NEW penalty  charge notice to  your correct address. You would then be able to pay the charge at the earlier discounted rate.

 

On both the PE2 and PE3 there is a 'reason' box. What information did you provide in both these boxes?

 

[sunnytoday]

The reasons on the appeal were:
1. I did not receive the fine as I'd moved house
2. I did not receive the subsequent letters for the same reason.
3. I am late because I have only just found out about this from the bailiffs.

 

Again, I realise now that maybe I should have gone into a lot more detail, maybe that's why it was rejected.

[Bailiff Advice]

1 hour ago, sunnytoday said:

The reasons on the appeal were:
1. I did not receive the fine as I'd moved house
2. I did not receive the subsequent letters for the same reason.
3. I am late because I have only just found out about this from the bailiffs.

 

 

I know that you now realise that you had not provided anything like enough of an explanation to justify the cancellation of the debt, but I am curious as to WHY you provided so little information. 

 

PS; Please don't beat yourself up about this because well over 65% of Out of Time applications are REFUSED and almost all rejections, are due to the same reason that yours has.....lack of information to support the cancellation of the debt. 

 

 

 

[sunnytoday]

Simply naivety and lack of information/understanding. Never dealt with anything like this before and the council provided no guidance or support.

 

I have been told to submit N244 and try to get the fees wavered.

 

[sunnytoday]

These are my new reasons, if you care to help/advise further:

 

1 - I did not receive the enforcement notice for the original contravention as it went to my previous address (address and moving date included)

 

2 - The warrant of control had my previous address and an enforcement agent took an enforcement step without the authority requesting the issue of a new warrant specifying the new address of the respondent under CPR 75.7(7).

3 - I was not given the NOE from the enforcement agent under the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 s.8(1) as this was sent to my previous address.

[Bailiff Advice]

1 hour ago, sunnytoday said:

These are my new reasons, if you care to help/advise further:

 

1 - I did not receive the enforcement notice for the original contravention as it went to my previous address (address and moving date included)

 

2 - The warrant of control had my previous address and an enforcement agent took an enforcement step without the authority requesting the issue of a new warrant specifying the new address of the respondent under CPR 75.7(7).

3 - I was not given the NOE from the enforcement agent under the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 s.8(1) as this was sent to my previous address.

 

As your application has (not surprisingly) been refused, you are able to 'seek a review'. Such applications are in fact, few and far between and the reason for this is twofold:

 

Firstly, there is a court fee of up to £255. If you are in receipt of qualifying benefits, you may be exempt from paying all or part of the fees.

 

Secondly, in seeking a 'review' the District Judge is VERY limited indeed into  what he can consider. What you CANNOT do is to try to 'improve' your Out of Time application by attempting to introduce statements that you had not included in your ORIGINAL applications. That is a fact. Accordingly, your 'new comments' outlined above can be ignored.  

 

The Judge would only be able to 'review' what you had initially stated on your PE2 and PE3. 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Bailiff Advice

[sunnytoday]

Are you then saying that N244 is not worth proceeding with?

I don't seem to have any other choice - I cannot pay £408. I have no other ideas as to how to deal with this, I am trying everything I can think of.

[Bailiff Advice]

3 minutes ago, Bailiff Advice said:

 

 

 

Secondly, in seeking a 'review' the District Judge is VERY limited indeed into  what he can consider. What you CANNOT do is to try to 'improve' your Out of Time application by attempting to introduce statements that you had not included in your ORIGINAL applications. That is a fact. Accordingly, your 'new comments' outlined above can be ignored.  

 

The Judge would only be able to 'review' what you had initially stated on your PE2 and PE3. 

 

 

For visitors reading this thread, the specific regulations regarding a 'review' are outlined under item 6.3 of the Practice Directions supporting Part 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules which state as follows:

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part75/pd_part75#6.1

 

6.3 Attention is drawn to the limited powers of a district judge where a request is made to review an order of a court officer refusing an application for further time for filing a statutory declaration or witness statement.

 

Any review of that order by a district judge will only be a review of the decision to refuse the application for further time for filing a statutory declaration or witness statement.

[Bailiff Advice]

9 hours ago, sunnytoday said:

I don't seem to have any other choice - I cannot pay £408. I have no other ideas as to how to deal with this, I am trying everything I can think of.

 

The first thing that you need to think about is your vehicle as this would be the item that a bailiff would be looking to seize. How much is your car worth and is it on finance?

 

Next, you should contact the enforcement company and request that they send you a NEW Notice of Enforcement. The reason why they must do this is because, regulation 8 (1) of the Taking Control of Goods specifically states that such a notice must be sent "to the address  where the debtor usually lives" 

 

When the new notice arrives, the amount should be £173 will will include bailiff fees of  £75. As long  as you contact the enforcement company straight away, you will be able to enter into a short term (usually around 3 months) payment arrangement. 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Bailiff Advice

[sunnytoday]

They say things come in 3s...

 

About 4 weeks ago, right after receiving the NOE, someone drove into my car at the roundabout. The accident was such, that the car was a write off. So I don't have that car any longer.

 

Thank you, I will call the bailiffs with the above advice.

 

Thanks

[sunnytoday]

Spoke to Jacobs and they refused to remove the £235 or to help in any other way.

They said they were within their rights to charge me that, even though I didn't reside at the address.

 

[Bailiff Advice]

4 minutes ago, sunnytoday said:

Spoke to Jacobs and they refused to remove the £235 or to help in any other way.

They said they were within their rights to charge me that, even though I didn't reside at the address.

 

When was your Statutory Declaration refused. Can you post up a copy?

[sunnytoday]

It was refused on 20th March.

 

It says:

 

''If you wish to apply for a review of this decision, you should complete an Application Notice form N244. It should be filed within 14 days of the date of service of the Court Officer's Order (I presume that's this letter). For the review, the fee is £255 at the nearest County Court Hearing Centre or £100 by a District Judge. This may incur further costs, you should seek legal advice before proceeding'.

[Bailiff Advice]

There is little point in contacting the enforcement company just yet as they would not be aware of the rejection of your application. Also, you are given a 14 day grace period to consider whether to seek a review (of the rejection). 

 

I would suggest waiting a few days. As your vehicle has been written off, you do not have to fear that it will be seized. 

[sunnytoday]

I called the council and they said the Bailiffs were informed of the rejection of the appeal on 19th March.

So I'm expecting a letter from them requesting the payment any time now.

 

I think I will go the N244 route with Citizens Advice support. I don't see any other way out currently.

[Bailiff Advice]

5 minutes ago, sunnytoday said:

 

I think I will go the N244 route with Citizens Advice support. I don't see any other way out currently.

 

 

Are you in receipt of benefits? If so, you may be exempt from paying the £100 fee. Please do not be tempted to request that the review is heard in open court  (£255 fee). 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Bailiff Advice

[sunnytoday]

I am not currently as I am actively seeking work and on garden leave till the end of April.

I was only made redundant last week.

If I find employment asap, then we should be fine.

I will go for the cheaper option, definitely.