JP Morgan/Rooftop Arrears fees- The saga continues.

[jotty]

Can someone give me a bit of advice re the POC for my intended reclaim of home visit fees. None were agreed to as above and no appointments were ever argued.

[BankFodder]

Well I suppose that you will need to keep it as minimal as possible.

Something like

 

Quote

 

The claimant brings this claim in respect of a) breach of statutory duty and b) the recovery of money paid under a mistake.
The defendant acted unfairly towards the claimant in the conduct of mortgage reference XXXXX in that they unilaterally arranged home visits without reference to the claimant either without notice and/or giving insufficient time to cancel. In the event, no visits took place and the defendant levied charges upon the claimant which the claimant now realises were unfair. Claimants now understand that this conduct of the claimant's mortgage was unfair and contrary to the Mortgage: Conduct of Business Regulations and contrary to FCA guidelines.

The claimant seeks a finding that the defendant behaved unfairly and the repayment of £XXX paid under a mistake plus interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts act 1984

 

 

How would that be for a starting point?

[BankFodder]

Don't forget you will have to send them a letter of claim

[jotty]

Yes looks great, I will get a draft done over the weekend and post it up 

[BankFodder]

Where are we with this?

[jotty]

Started a draft, but not looked at it since Sunday.

 

I will be looking at it again in next day or so and get on with things.

[jotty]

Just a quick question re the letter of claim, I have read the advice from the link and not sure how much I need to include.

 

I presume its a "beefed up" version of a LBA, so do I just include a letter outlining the brief details of the claim, a statement of the debt and response address. Or do I need to include any statutory documents as well.

[jotty]

Letter of claim sent re the home visit fees , kept it all fairly simple as per the guidelines, so lets wait for response.

[jotty]

Had a response to my LBA, I had wanted the cost of home visits plus 8% which came to just over £600.

 

They have now offered to wipe the fees but not pay the 8%, but i have to agree to an NDA.

 

Should I accept or should I go for the full amount, bearing in mind it will only reduce the nice little fees and charges bit they have running alongside our mortgage which currently stands at £4500 or so.

[BankFodder]

Can you remind me how long ago you paid the home visit charges

[jotty]

The first was in 2008, and last in Jan 2019, JP Morgan are the ones offering to refund the ones they levied between 08 and 2017 when they transferred our account to their subsidiary company Rooftop. We are yet to hear from Rooftop about their charges between 2017 and Jan 2019, but as they are one and the same i expect same from them.

 

The 8% interest is more than the charges due to time which is why I am tempted to hold out for full amount.

[BankFodder]

So I'm sorry to ask you to go through this again – but how much with the charges and how much is the 8%? In other words how much are they quibbling over?

Also what is the interest rate that they have been levying on the pitch during that time? Why they've had your own visit charges, they've been lending the money out at some rate of interest so they've had benefit from it.

So much they quibbling over?

[jotty]

Thanks BF your replies have been a massive support, let me get the figures together as I have lost track and I will post up a quick resume. 

[jotty]

Quick breakdown:-

 

They set up a 2nd account some time ago which runs alongside our main Interest only mortgage, and they call that "default charges" which is made up of everything over the years that they claim is owed under their t&c's. This included failed dd charges, home visit, and also a nice little £50 pm whilst we are in arrears. This have grown over the 10 yrs we have had it to £4500. There is conflicting evidence as to if it would prevent us selling our house without clearing this as well as the mortgage which is why I am now trying to reduce what they can lawfully claim is owed.

 

Based on advice and my own limited knowledge I have decided to do things in small amounts, based on what the charges are for and also dates. In order to fully understand the system I have started with the contentious home visit charges.

 

As of today they stand at £277.50, but because they are from 2008 till now I added the 8% court interest when I sent in the LBA which brought the figure I am claiming to £510.18.

 

They have offered to refund the smaller amount in full but not the interest, all without prejudice and only if I sign an NDA which I am not happy with.

 

You are correct in that as this is a horrendous subprime mortgage we have easily  re payed the costs and some. So question is do I go to court for the full amount or accept their offer.

[BankFodder]

So the actual charges were £277.50 but they have attracted interest haven't they? So what was the actual amount paid including interest?

[jotty]

No as far as I can see they haven't charged interest, as its a separate account they simply add charges and allow the balance to grow. They call them default fees. 

 

If I was to go to court then I of course would be able to add the 8% which is what I have done in the LBA.

[BankFodder]

Have you actually paid the charges? Or is this an outstanding balance on that account?

[jotty]

No, but they have tried many times and I am baffled as to why they haven't forced it in reality, it seems they are happy for the amount to grow. 

 

They have on occasion added the arrears figure which is around £1000 to the balance of this account and claimed I owe £5,500 in arrears rather than the much smaller amount, but again they have never gone beyond the bad letter stage.

[BankFodder]

Okay.

If you haven't actually paid the money then you're not out of pocket. If you are not out of pocket then you're not entitled to pay interest on it. So I'm afraid that your position is that you can only claim/sue them for the capital/net amount – essentially asking for it to be forgiven – but without interest.

You can only claim interest when you are out of pocket – in other words you are getting compensation for the loss of use of your money.

However, the confidentiality is not part of the deal. I think that you have shown them your teeth already. They may not appreciate at this point that you aren't entitled to claim interest so I would suggest that you say to them that you are exceptionally prepared to accept the amount of money that they are offering but under no circumstances will you sign a confidentiality agreement. Tell them that this is your only fallback position and if they will not agree then you will see them in the County Court and as they know there will be no question of confidentiality. Point out them also that their treatment of view is unfair and that the basis of your action will be under MCOBS and that once you get judgement – as you inevitably will, you will be forwarding a copy of the judgement to the FCA as well as publishing it on the Internet.

Tell them that if they want confidentiality then they will have to pay your gross figure.

I don't think there is anything particularly to be gained by not giving them confidentiality on this issue if it gets you an extra 300 quid or so. However they may wake up and realise that you're not entitled to interest but I would certainly hold the confidentiality issue over them. My view has always been that confidentiality has its own value and if people want confidentiality then they must pay for it.

[jotty]

Yes understood, and thank you for the advice which I will go with.

 

In your opinion, do I have a case to start claiming back the many £40/£50 monthly admin charges also applied to the same account under MCOBS ?

 

yes

and everything else in the default charges account

[BankFodder]

The admin charges are probably recoverable but as we have said a few months ago, do it in small chunks which keeps it manageable, keeps the risk down and also establishes your credibility and your seriousness with the defendant. The more you establish that you are a serious litigant, then the more cautious they will be about dealing with you.

[jotty]

Thanks again, response has been sent accepting their refund but not the conf bit.

 

As said the saga continues..................

[BankFodder]

I suggest in seven days you follow up with a another letter saying that as they have not responded to your letter of X X X (the one you have just sent) you will be issuing your threatened legal proceedings in seven days for the full amount plus interest plus fees and without any further notice.

[jotty]

Having read up re CRA entries do I have a case if I complain to them, even though we have now not missed a payment for over 3yrs and the arrears have decreased Rooftop still record every month that the account is 3+ months in arrears. Now I suppose we are, but should this not now also show that we are not missing payments if that makes sense ?

[dx100uk]

for the months you have paid on time it should show tick green.