TFL Fare Evasion Prosecution - losing job - help!

[greygoat]

Hi dx and all,

 

I received the court summons charging me "Contrary to Byelaw 17(1) of the Transport for London Railway Byelaws Made under paragraph 26 of Schedule 11 to the Great London Authority Act 1999 and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport Act 1962"

 

A full list of 90+ journeys were suspected with signature required for each journey

 

1) I have 10+ journeys not made me and I have another oyster card travel history to prove this - should I include this as evidence or just admit all 90+ journeys, in case TFL made further investigations and incur further costs?

 

2) Surprisingly my court day is in early September, so I have three months negotiating with TFL. Since I have provided potential loss of job evidence in my initial response, TFL did not write back but send the court summons right away. How should I keep negotiating with TFL in this case?

 

p.s. I didn't see on letter that I should send materials back to court within 21 days as stated on many other people's summons..

 

Thank you all in advance  

[dx100uk]

1 no.

the 90+ is probably listed as will be TIC?

if you plead guilty and attend to the one listed offence?

 

yes you should keep on at TfL.

 

dx

[greygoat]

Hi dx,

 

90+ journey list is all journeys ever recorded on that card - and they claimed all of them were suspected made by me

 

did you mean I should or shouldn't tell TFL that 10 of these were not made by me?

 

Thanks

[BazzaS]

I’m always hesitant to advise someone to admit something they haven’t done.

yet, if you say “wasn’t me”, TfL might well ask “well, who was it then?”, and was it the pass’s authorised recipient?

are they the same route as the one you admit?

would the pass’s recipient be happy to confirm it was them who travelled?

[greygoat]

Thanks BazzaS

 

Yeah those journeys were made by the rightful owner..but again it's tricky for the card owner to step out as he might face the risk of being charged for letting me use the card..

 

So if I sign all the boxes to admit all 90+ journeys were made by me - would it deemed as another lie if subsequently found out the opposite?

 

would you advise in this case I just sign all of the journeys suspected and do not create another potential trouble? (that's what I plan to go for now) 

[BazzaS]

I don’t know. Trying to work through the possibilities:

 

in some respects I suspect it will make little difference to the outcome if it goes to court, as these are being “taken into consideration”, and won’t affect any fine much. They will affect the recovery of unpaid fares, but for 10 fares that isn’t a massive amount.

 

where it may make a difference is if TFL are considering an administrative settlement.

If they were going to offer that, and you said “10 weren’t me”, they might offer it anyway.

 

If them offering it is “in the balance” there are 2 conflicting pressures:

a) “He has admitted to 80+, and could have just coughed to all. At least he is now being truthful, which fits with contrition”

b) “Sod it. Now we are going to have to look at / spend time thinking about the effect of those 10. Why couldn’t he have just coughed to them all and made my life simpler....”

there is also

c) Makes no difference, stop overthinking it.

 

So, unless someone can cast insight intoTfL’s process : we don’t know.

Back then to my earlier contribution :

i) “Don’t admit to something you haven’t done”.

(Along with contributions to other threads of

ii) “don’t get caught in a lie”, as it decreases your credibility, and

iii) “you don’t have to offer info they aren’t asking for, but do answer what they ask”).

 

Were the other 10 journeys the exact same route? If so, how can you be sure it wasn’t you?

If it wasn’t the same route: say so as the reason you know it wasn’t you.

If the same route and you are sure it wasn’t you (being on holiday, checking work rota, etc)

would you consider replying truthfully, and including a covering letter along the lines of:

”I’ve checked carefully as I want to be truthful.

I’ve signed admitting to the journeys I believe I’ve made. The 10 journeys I’ve not signed for weren’t me. I know this because <reason(s)>.

 

I can only hope this doesn’t now mean extra work for TfL, as I’m still sorry for the work my actions have caused TfL’s staff, but I appreciate the importance of me answering truthfully”, in an attempt to cover all of a), b), and c) above, while fitting in with i), ii), and iii) above, too.

 

 

[greygoat]

Thanks BazzaS for all above and your patience.

 

Another quich Q: TFL currently charges my with Contract to byelaw 17 with suspected 90+ journeys also made by me. If I admit in the next letter to TFL or sign all the boxes to ask court take them into considerations.

 

Would this action actually results in TFL "upgrade my chagre" i. e. chagre me with Railway Act 1889 instead?

 

I much wanted to continue communicating with TFL and attend court in person, but I fear if I am asked if I do this knowingly - I will have to answer yes and which could lead to a more severe charge?

 

Any thoughs/advices welcomed. Thank you!

[greygoat]

would anyone help advise on the above, please？

 

Thank you all in advance!

[BazzaS]

I can only advise: "don't get caught in a lie". The safest way to ensure that is telling the truth. You don't have to offer info they aren't asking for, but the truth means you don't have to remember what version of what story you've given ....

 

I can't tell you what to do, that is your choice, but I hope what I've said helps you make the correct decision for your circumstances.

[greygoat]

thanks all for your great advices and helps so far.

 

After self-report the event and telling all the truth to my employer, I am now on suspension pending the investigation. I was given the impression that dismissal without notice is very likely.

 

If this happens, my right to live in the uk will be immediately revoked so I might not be able to stay until court date.

 

Does anybody know TFL prosecutions team's direct contact number so I can discuss with them how to close the case if I have to leave the UK..

 

thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

have you this in writing from your employer?

 

dx

[greygoat]

yes a suspension on full pay letter

[dx100uk]

then send a copy to your TfL liaison that wrote back?
 

[greygoat]

the problem is they never wrote back but issued court summons instead..

 

So I have no idea how to contact them directly and efficiently. 

[dx100uk]

you have a TfL case number , you know the address.

poss inc a copy of your initial letter again too 

[greygoat]

Thanks dx and all others who helped me on this case.

 

After acknowledging the fact that I have self-reported to my employer and received a suspension letter (on ground of gross misconduct) pending internal investigation and the potential that I will have to leave the UK very shortly if I am dismissed without notice, a OOC decision has been made to settle my case.

 

I hope I can still keep my job after the disciplinary hearing due next week..

 

Please do let me know if I can be further help.

[honeybee13]

Have you shown this documentation to TfL?

 

HB

[dx100uk]

hey that's good news 

glad to help.

 

your job should be ok as they aren't prosecuting you now so nothing for your employer to do anything about..pokey nose out time.

you cant be punished by them for being honest and telling them.

if you hadn't ..given the OOC settlement, they would never have known nor needed to know about it all

 

dx

 

[greygoat]

thanks dx

I self reported to them so they suspended me and investigated.  I admited using it to save money and they rised allegations of dishonesty and lack of integrity

 

they said OOC cannot change the fact of my criminal offence.  as we are in a client facing industry they seem to uphold a very high standard of internal code of ethics

 

so I am really worried. my hearing of alleaged gross misconduct is next week and they say if allegations substantied could lead to summary dismissal.. really worried

[dx100uk]

but you have not been convicted!

 

have you stated anything to your employer about how long you used the card for or no of offences?

do they know anything other than 'you got stopped by an inspector?'

[greygoat]

yes they requested a copy of court summons and I admitted regular misuse. Now I really feel I will be punished for being honest.. 

[BazzaS]

Punished for being honest? Punished for being truthful about being dishonest, surely?.

[greygoat]

15 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Have you shown this documentation to TfL?

 

HB

Hi HB yes I showed my suspension letter to TFL. 

[greygoat]

10 minutes ago, BazzaS said:

Punished for being honest? Punished for being truthful about being dishonest, surely?.

yes I thought being truthful by admitting everything might alleviate the punishment.  After all what's done is done and all I hoped was to memorise this very hard lesson and  have a refresh start 

 

not sure if my employer will give me a second chance and keep me at job