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Hi guys,


Hoping you are all well. 

 

Just received a letter for PCN. My partner was driving at this time. She was picking up our daughter from a nursery. The location where PCN was issued is within the ground of the nursery. Unfortunately she over stayed around 18 minutes without paying. No ticket was attached to the vehicle at the time. 

 

She was advised by the nursery that they do not ticket the car if it's under 10 minutes, however did this time as it was longer.

 

Should we settle the cost of 60 quid?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

 

 

 

Scannable_Document_on_15_Mar_2019_at_12_32_22.pdf

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to be honest you should know what to do by now, you have collected enough of them before and been told just about all of the permutations.

anyway, if it is ticket slapped on the vehicle you do nothing for the moment but next time you are there you photograph the entrance to the land from the public highway and all of the signage in the parking area. If it was the first  letter through the post then it has failed miserably to fulfil any of the requirements of the POFA so no-one owes them a penny

I would ask the nursery whether they hve done a DBS check on the bod taking the details as they havent used ANPR as there are no pictures on the NTK.

om goggleyes there is no signage other than a small one saying you might be clamped so no contract. That is from May 2018 so anything newe wont appear  on the pictures which is good news for you as you can use the screen shots to cast doubt on their story.

also to be picky there isnt a car park on Tollgate rd, it is in Kingsford way

CEL tell lies

 

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1 Date of the infringement – 27/02/2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] – 04/03/2019

 

3 Date received – 11/03/2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] - Y

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] - N

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up - N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcement Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] By Entrance on Kingsford way to a car park of a nursery, E6 5YA

 

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On 15/03/2019 at 18:39, ericsbrother said:

Thanks Eric, I agree with you and I kind of understand it, but I am always paranoid I will do something incorrect and mess  it up... 

 

This is the first letter I received and no ticket was slapped on the car at the time of event.

 

You are right about google, there is no signage on the pictures, however there are 100% signs now inside that parking courtyard.

 

I will stop by the nursery myself next week I take my daughter and speak to the staff.

 

You are also right about car park being on Kingsford Way, should have made it more clearer. 

 

Many thanks

 

Quote

 

to be honest you should know what to do by now, you have collected enough of them before and been told just about all of the permutations.

 

anyway, if it is ticket slapped on the vehicle you do nothing for the moment but next time you are there you photograph the entrance to the land from the public highway and all of the signage in the parking area.

 

If it was the first  letter through the post then it has failed miserably to fulfil any of the requirements of the POFA so no-one owes them a penny

 

I would ask the nursery whether they hve done a DBS check on the bod taking the details as they havent used ANPR as there are no pictures on the NTK.

 

om goggleyes there is no signage other than a small one saying you might be clamped so no contract.

 

That is from May 2018 so anything newe wont appear  on the pictures which is good news for you as you can use the screen shots to cast doubt on their story.

 

also to be picky there isnt a car park on Tollgate rd, it is in Kingsford way

CEL tell lies

 

 

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but CEL say it is Tollgate rd. Now that is the addrss for the nursery but does that accurately identify the land? This moot popit wont win you the war but show CEL have been slapdash elsewhere and the rest of what they say this is true will carry little weight and small things like this just add to the weight of your arguments.

Pictures of signs and ANPR system please.

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On 16/03/2019 at 13:29, ericsbrother said:

but CEL say it is Tollgate rd. Now that is the addrss for the nursery but does that accurately identify the land? This moot popit wont win you the war but show CEL have been slapdash elsewhere and the rest of what they say this is true will carry little weight and small things like this just add to the weight of your arguments.

Pictures of signs and ANPR system please.

You are correct, that post code and the address on letter comes up as a main road entrance. The car park is located at the back from the main road that you enter via Kingsford Way. I will drive up there right now to get some pictures and will post shortly. 

 

Thanks again!

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On 16/03/2019 at 16:33, Karalius said:

You are correct, that post code and the address on letter comes up as a main road entrance. The car park is located at the back from the main road that you enter via Kingsford Way. I will drive up there right now to get some pictures and will post shortly. 

 

Thanks again!

Hi, please find attached images of the car park and entrance from the road. One thing that I noted is that upon entering the car park the signs on wall are CEL, however inside the actual car park it is from company called StarPark. Please also see ANPR camera in the middle of the car park.

 

Thanks 

jpg2pdf (7).pdf

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the companies often have this odd arrangement but they are not even run  y the same people but the actual peopel who run them are good frienrds and the peopel named on the Companies House registration are just front men. Totally illegal but no-one polices this so it is more common than it should be.

 

This means that CEL cant enforce on behalf of a third party. This is  somehting they know and tend to go quiet when they sue people and this is raised as part of a defence.

 

also note that the signon the entrance is an "invitation to treat" so that menas you can ignore the other signs anyway. As for only paying by phone- unfair contract.

 

Also if Starpark are the service provider it would be unlawful for CEL to obtain your keeper details from the DVLA as they have no  reasonable cause to do so.

 

You need to write to the DVLA and ask then is Starpark Ltd are permitted automated access under the KADOE agreement and if they are not then you complain that CEL are breaching their agreement because they are working solely for soemone who has no authority to have your details.

 

Get on with this now and when you get a response from the DVLA tell us and we will probably advise a compaint to the ICO.

 

Also ask the local council if anyione has planning permission for the cameras and signage

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

the companies often have this odd arrangement but they are not even run  y the same people but the actual peopel who run them are good frienrds and the peopel named on the Companies House registration are just front men. Totally illegal but no-one polices this so it is more common than it should be.

This means that CEL cant enforce on behalf of a third party. This is  somehting they know and tend to go quiet when they sue people and this is raised as part of a defence.

also note that the signon the entrance is an "invitation to treat" so that menas you can ignore the other signs anyway. As for only paying by phone- unfair contract.

Also if Starpark are the service provider it would be unlawful for CEL to obtain your keeper details from the DVLA as they have no  reasonable cause to do so.

You need to write to the DVLA and ask then is Starpark Ltd are permitted automated access under the KADOE agreement and if they are not then you complain that CEL are breaching their agreement because they are working solely for soemone who has no authority to have your details.

Get on with this now and when you get a response from the DVLA tell us and we will probably advise a compaint to the ICO.

Also ask the local council if anyione has planning permission for the cameras and signage

Wow, it amazes me how knowledgeable you are good sir. All of those points are valid. Thank you!

 

I will get the letter posted out to DVLA today. Can you please advise if below letter sounds ok? 

------

"My name & address

 

To whom it may concern

 

I write to request that DVLA provide me with details and reason of who and why enquires have been made on my vehicle during period of February 1st 2019 to March 18th 2019.

 

Further to above, can you please advise if Starpark LTD are permitted to receive automated access under KADOE agreement?

 

My vehicle details are: ------- I also attach a V5C document to prove my ownership of the vehicle."

-----

I have also found an address for local council (Newham) that I am planning to write to - any advise on below too please? I am planning to also include the pictures for the specific area (car park)

 

My name & address

 

To whom it may concern

 

Can you please provide planning permission for the cameras and signage at below address:

 

Car Park at 218 Tollgate Road, London, E6 5YA (in specific the car park as you enter Kingsford Way) 

 

This is required for proof purposes on my current PCN case. 

 

Many thanks

 

**EDIT** Is this also correct address to send into DVLA? 

Release of Information

Paying Enquiries Section

DVLA

Swansea

SA99 1AJ

 

or

 

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Karalius

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dont tell the council why you want the info, they are less likely to want to say anything but be clear they are ANPR cameras as these are different to ordinary CCTV cameras as far as consent goes.

DVLA address leed looking up. Youa sk who and when and waht was the reason given. you then ask is Star park have access to the KADOE system as they are 2 separate things

This is in other posts so start reading more.....

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