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    • please complete this:     and scan up the PCN bothsides to one multipage pdf read upload   dx  
    • Must satisfy POFA if they want to ground Keeper Liability, so no Keeper liability, their RoboClaims always try to sue both as if they can jointly and severally, but the Courts should be looking at the was Driver or Keeper and chuck the claim out for being vague, but they don't  They might if POFA fails and they know they are onto a loser, might have a last gasp and try to rely on Elliott v Loake a criminal case so not applicable to a Civil claim, and CPS v AJH Films, again not applicable as is about employer/employee, they will do this to try to get someone to cough up before a case they know they are going to lose to salvage what they have already paid ou to go to court.  I would delete the  line   As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline as is my right to name the driver (s) at this time"  That is an oblique reference to the duty to name driver in a Criminal case, and is the Elloitt v Loake scenario.   Others will have better ideas, but lloking decent.
    • Good morning request sent off yesterday to moriarty law  but today got this load of tosh  Combine Jul 17, 2019.pdf
    • In response to your question, I have a copy of the title deeds showing ownership and also the leases. No idea what to do with that info though!   I should be most grateful if you would review the attached brief draft defence on page 1. The page 2 thoughts are a work in progress.   The POFA point is weak in my opinion, but having read a lot of analysis of the requirements, I haven't managed to come up with anything beefy.   I should be grateful for any ideas on that, as it seems like a failure to follow procedure would be a strong defence.   Also it asks for the driver's details on the PCN and then the claim states the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver, but I don't really understand whether there's a point of defence there.    DRAFT DEFENCE 1)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS had a contract with the landowner (The West London Property Corporation Ltd.) in August 2015, and therefore failed to show either a legitimate interest in controlling parking at the Berkeley Precinct, or the authorisation to make charges on their own behalf, for any overstay in the carpark, including for first-time offenders (relevant to Tesco lease). (no response to CPR 31.14 request delivered and signed for at 10.32a.m. on 9th July) 2)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS obtained a planning permit from the Sheffield Planning Department under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 (also requested in my CPR 31.14 letter) and that there were prominent signs in existence at that time, showing clearly the terms and conditions for parking and the charge payable for any breach. Therefore, the three elements of offer, acceptance and consideration required for a contract were not met, and no contract existed. 3)      The claimant failed to issue the PCN in the timescale required under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for keeper liability and, allowing for the 2 day delivery time afforded to Royal Mail, it arrived a day later than the 14 day deadline. The parking company has not met the keeper liability requirements and therefore keeper liability does not apply. The parking company can therefore only pursue the driver. As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline, as is my right, to provide the name of the driver(s) at the time. As the parking company have neither named the driver(s) nor provided any evidence as to who the driver(s) were, I submit I am not liable to any charge.    
    • Hi All,   I just received a PCN from UKCPM for not having my pass displayed at 23:08 on 06/07.   Standard £100 charge with an ever so kind of them discount to £60 for 14 days.   What's the best way to deal with this?   Thanks KM
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Michael1990

Backdoor UKCPS CCJ for 7 PCNs 4 years after I changed address

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Read post 18 by ericsbrother here


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despite constant please to read a load of other material you seem to want to avoid doing anything that will actually help your cause and help us help you

 

The devil is in the detail so pay attention to what exactly is written or suggested and then think carefully before you act.

for example email - where in any of the post on this forum does it say that you should email anyone?

 

You need to learn because even if we come up with the most fantastic defence you still have to present it on the day and if you dont understand it then the parking co's solicitors will run rings around you and probably get you to just drop it all rather then being strident in your presentation and be glad to take them on.

 

they know nothing about the facts of the case, they can only spout generalisations because YOU know about the signs, what dates things happened, what you received etc

 

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@ericsbrother you need to appreciate people are liable to make mistakes. Yes, the email was a massive error on my part, but I have been doing nothing but try to get on top of this all and there's a lot to consider and take in. That's exactly why I've been posting every single thing I do, in case I'm either wrong, and I can be corrected or I do something wrong and need to correct it, as I've done with my error of using email. 

 

I am trying to learn the best I can with the time I have under my circumstances and I'll keep trying and I'll do my best to understand everything but at the same time, I'm not a solicitor, I've never had to read up laws and laws aren't very easy to just understand with a single view.

 

I 100% would not have even stood a chance if it wasn't for this forum and the people who have helped (unless I paid a solicitor) so I am so grateful to everyone who's spent the time to help in any way they can and I know it can be frustrating when someone makes a mistake in what you consider to be common sense so I apologise that I'm not being the most knowledgeable but please do know, I am trying, do not think any different. 

 

I am currently working on my defence with some help so when I have a draft I'll let you guys have a look and see how it is :)

 

thanks a lot!

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we are not solicitors and started out in the same way as you have to and that is why we have urged you to read up a lot about the subject and strongly urged you to make sure you understand what is written so you dont fall into any traps.

 

If a sticky says write that means an actual letter or it would say email or telephone instead

The reasons for this are made clear in dozens if not hundreds of threads and we do expect you to try and use as many resources as possible so you can understand what you need to do and say in your defence.

 

We havent seen any pictures of the site for example, they are critical.

A plan of the development will also help you if you intend to rubbish them for a lack of signs

but as you lived there that wont be necessary

 

but generally UKPC signs at residential developments are just garbage and arent contracts but prohibitive in nature so you need images to show this and then understand the argument as there are 2 factes to it depending upon the wording of the sign..

 

We want to help you,

we want you to beat these bandits

 

in the long run we want better law to protect the motorist and the landlord's rights to use their land how they want to rather than having this rubbish system that only benefits a bunch of grabbing middle-men

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and get that info from DVLA urgently. UKPC aren't going to volunteer that sort of thing to you.

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Just a quick update.

 

Ukpc have sent me the information they are relying on as evidence for their claim.

They all of a sudden have every picture with a NTK on even though I only found the one!

They also sent me the contract between them and the landowner.

 

They also sent me a tonne of pictures,

however on the actual PCN's which were issued via post,

there was only a picture of the back on my car showing the number plate,

and parking spot,

not the front windscreen with any NTK attached.

 

There's one thing bothering me,

on the pcn's issued to me,

 

where it shows the back of the vehicle,

even if you look at the photo's they included separately,

the pcn states the reason for it is "parked in a permit area without displaying  a valid permit"

 

but you can see there is a permit in the car,

just not 100% visible,

 

so it's there,

arguably just unclear,

and this is the same for all the cases except 1 where on the pcn they've put the wrong make and colour of the vehicle!    

 

I am waiting on the DVLA registered keeper team to get in touch with me, I am chasing but I probably won't hear until Monday. 

 

@ericsbrother you are right I haven't shown pictures of signage, but I just tried but I can't due to the size of photos on my phone.       

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how have they sent this info?

 


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Hoipe trhey didn't use email, if so block and send them letter stating you can't accept things rthey may rely on in court by emeil post only, they could send you something 11:59pm the day before a Hearing and you could do nothing to challenge it.


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The thing stuck on the windscreen is a NTD. There's no obligation for them to issue one at all, but this will affect when they can send the NTK. (The PCN you receive through the post is the NTK).

 

If there is a NTD they MUST wait until day 29 then they MUST get the keeper details from DVLA and get the NTK delivered by day 56.

 

If there is NOT a NTD they MUST get the keeper details from DVLA and get NTK delivered by day 14.

 

Each and every single time, they MUST get the details from DVLA.

 

Put your photos in a PDF document (multipage doc if you have several photos). Read the forum guide.

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Each DVLA application MUST be separate for each NTK, they cannot assume that all is the same as first ticket, as the Keeper might have changed in the meantime.  It's not beyond the muppetry of a PPC to send a Claimform based onb an old ticket  to a former Keeper for something after they sold the car and notified DVLA.


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@dx100uk they sent this via email attachments. They did state that they are sending it all via post as well and have also stated they do not rely on email rather post for documents. I have not replied or acknowledging receipt of their email and i am waiting on their post.

 

@Mrs O'Frog ah right, well as far as the NTK's go, it was as follows :

26/12/14 - The NTK was dated 30/01/15

27/12/14 - The NTK was dated 11/02/15

29/12/14 - The NTK was dated 11/02/15 - This one is duplicated in their supporting evidence.

05/01/15 - No NTK has been provided in their evidence.

10/01/15 - No NTK has been provided in their evidence, however I did appeal this one, im not sure if they have to provide an NTK if it gets appealed?

They do all of sudden have the yellow NTD pictured on the windscreen for each, even though i only ever found 1.

 

I am going to get onto DVLA first thing Monday and get the information from them.

 

And thanks for that idea for the pictures! i have uploaded the signage from the outside at the entrance, I am just trying to get inside for pictures to add, but its the same signs as these 2 on the inside.

Signage from Outside..pdf

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I have just found that I've received the postal copies of everything.

 

Where they have taken pictures, there is not a single picture where the NTD and the permit not being visible is in the same image. They have taken a separate picture of the NTD and the permit for each, do they not have to show both in a single picture?   

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Posted (edited)

Think about it, if you want to show something  to your advantage would youn also include the very evidence that proves the claim is criminally false? of course not. What are you taking to make you think that this parkling co especially would ever tell the truth, there is no money in that, only in fraud and bullying.

Now post up YOUR evidence, pictures etc that you have got in the interim so we can help you there and post up their evidnce so we can tell you how to rebut it. Some of it is obvious, no pictures of the front of your vehicle so no evidence NTD was EVER attached and you assert that your permit was displayed and they ahve no evidence it wasnt, let alone in the stuff provided.

You stil are failing to understand the imprtance of anything suggested, you NEED to know when they got your keeper details to match this in with their NTK's but you havent given any indication of actually getting this yet.

 

where you say they havent attached the NTK then you ahmmer this home, they are relying on a a complete lack of a challenge to get this past the judge so you ake this the first thing you want to talk about so you can then say that they are clearly unreliale witnessess and ask for the rest of their evidence to be chucked out as unreliable as well,  esp if the person who signed off the WS isnt present.

 

 

Now the pictures you ahve of the signs are great because the signage is NOT a contract, the first one that refers to other signage is an "invitation to treat" and the other one is prohibitive in nature as it says permit holders only so if you dotn ahve a permit displayed the conditions dont apply to you and so you cant breach a contract because you havent been offered one. You need to read up on  this and copy the relevant articles on the same both from here and from the Parking Pranksters blogspot. You need to quote the cases and have the article in your bundle.

 

 

get reading adn then writing, you are a week late with this already so at least try ad recover some of the lost ground by geeting all of the arguments on paper and in the post/fax (not email other than to court)

 

as for contacting the DVLA on manday, they have 30 days to respond and even then they are likely to deliberately gie you the wrong answer as they are flouting the law themselves. Everything you need to do should have been done a month ago

Edited by ericsbrother

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@ericsbrotherI have my laptop with me at work, ill get a quick hour or so I'll upload what I have done so far, I just need to add some points from what they've provided me now so pleased keep an eye out for that tonight as I need to get it right. 

 

I will also edit and upload everything they sent me, so I can get your view on how to add it into my defense. 

 

As for DVLA they are the ones who provide me with the information of who carried out a keeper details earch against me and when correct? If so, I'm hoping they can provide me the info.

 

 

I will be posting the pictures I had when I can convert them to PDF as soon as I can. I have edited them to show no personal information

 

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2 hours ago, Michael1990 said:

As for DVLA they are the ones who provide me with the information of who carried out a keeper details earch against me and when correct? If so, I'm hoping they can provide me the info.

 

Post 12, 14th March told you to get an SAR off to DVLA pronto. Please tell me you already did this??? If so what did you ask and where did you send the request?

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@Mrs O'Frog Unfortunately I did not. I ended up forgetting that point while trying to get everything together but i will see what i can do when I call DVLA tomorrow and see of there's anything to be done.

 

I have just attached the images i took of the inside of the parking location. Please have a look and i am going to upload the edited documents they sent me in another comment.

Images from inside parking location.pdf

 

Ok I have added all the pictures that i have, including edited ones which show what they've sent me.

 

I apologise for the order they are in, it's just how they have  come through. but there should be the following;

 

Picture of Car, NTD and NTK with the final reminder NTK for 26/12/14

Picture of Car, NTD and NTK with the final reminder NTK for 27/12/14

Picture of Car, NTD and NTK with the final reminder NTK for 29/12/14

Picture of Car and NTD for 5/01/15 but no NTK

Picuture of Car and NTD for 10/01/15 but no NTK, however this does include an appeal which i wrote with a picture that i sent of my permit along with the appeal.

 

There should also be a notice of discontinuance for the 2 they wrongly claimed and some other correspondance including my final letter to them requestion all their evidence and their reply to that from 15/04/15.

 

Please look through and any ideas let me know.

 

ALSO I have looked and the NTK's that they sent to me were sent to my parents address registered to my driving license, yet they sent all court action to the address of the location. Not sure if this is a point to bring up as well?

edited images.pdf

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good work on the PDF

 

dx

 


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@dx100uk thanks! Took absolutely ages on my phone to edit them. Apparently I can do at least one thing right lol      

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Ok, this is what i have typed out so far. I just to refer to the evidences i have and put it in a good order. Just another point to clarify in my write-up, the address i was living in was different to my address on my driving license as it was only short term so i never changed it, so all the NTK's were sent to my Licence's address yet i never actually received the intent to claim at that address (it is my parents) i have mentioned this in my write up. please have a look and let me know what you guys think.

 

Claim from: County Court Business Centre

Claim No. XXXX

Judgment Date: 02/01/2019

Claimant: UK Parking Control Ltd

Defendant:  XXXX

 

Witness Statement

1.       I lived at the address, XXXX from 06/12/2014 to 05/06/2015.

2.       Between 20/12/2014 and 10/01/2015 I received 7 parking charge notices from UKPC.

3.       I contested the charges and corresponded with the claimant by post and email on several occasions, an example of both can be seen in the attached supporting evidence.

4.       My appeal was upheld for the first two charges and these were cancelled by email as can be seen in the supporting evidence, yet they were included in the claim.

5.       I wrote a letter to UKPC on 25/02/2015 informing them that I received 7 charges yet I received no notice to driver on the vehicle and that I spoke with an employee on 06/02/2015 who advised me that I request they be revoked which UKPC refused to comply with.

6.       I wrote a final letter of correspondence to UKPC on 31/03/2015 requesting that before the matter escalates any further, I would like UKPC to send me any and all relevant evidence regarding the alleged breaches of and if I did not hear from them within 14 days ( by 14/04/2015) I would consider the matter closed. I received no such evidence from UKPC on request, only a letter dated 15/04/2015 stating that they had made their final decision.

7.       I received no further correspondence from UKPC and assumed the other 5 charges had been cancelled.

8.       I moved to my new address on 05/06/2015 which was 66 days after my final letter of correspondence and I still had received no evidence for the accused breaches.

9.       I am unaware of UKPC having sent further correspondence to my former address, but if they had, I was not aware of this. I had always corresponded with them in a timely fashion previously. In the absence of a response, they should have had reason to doubt that the address was still my place of residence.

10.    UKPC sent all Notice to Keepers to the address XXXX, yet when it came to sending the claim documents and court documents, there was no receipt of these which leads me to believe UKPC had sent it to the where I lived previously XXXX. Therefore, if UKPC knew my address from my registered keeper details, I fail to understand how they did not manage to send me all the correct documentation to the same address as the notice to keeper.

 

Defense

Below are the key points which constitute my defence regarding the alleged breaches of contract.

Supremacy of contract, due to being a tenant on the property (as seen in evidence referenced page 3). At the time of the claimant issuing the tickets, I was a tenant on the property which provides me with supremacy of contract. The tenancy agreement has precedence over the contractual agreement that UKPC issued the charge under.

1.       Signage. The signage at the entrance and inside the car park reads “no unauthorized parking” and “Permit holders only”.  As I was a tenant at the address and was provided with a permit and a fob to open the shutter to gain access to the car park, I was authorized to park at the address and I was a permit holder, which can be seen in the evidence provided.

2.       Contract. I deny that I ever entered any contract with UKPC. A contract is an agreement between 2 or more parties where terms and conditions are discussed and agreed upon and signed into, which I deny ever doing. Furthermore I was in a contract with my landlord held by my tenancy agreement allowing me to park at the address in the allotted bay.

3.       The practice direction on pre-action conduct was not followed - No intent to claim was ever received at the address that UKPC had where they sent the Notices to keeper. Furthermore, I was not provided with any documentation regarding the alleged breaches, despite requesting it (as seen in evidence referenced page 1).

4.       UKPC had previously sent Notices to Keeper to my correct address but had not attempted to contact me at my correct address regarding the claim which UKPC was in possession as seen in all the notices to keeper. Furthermore they could have tracked my address via the electoral roll.

5.       Two of the parking tickets (pcn ref. XXXXand pcn ref. XXXX), which form part of the claim, had in fact been cancelled by UKPC on 11 March 2015 (as seen in evidence referenced pages 4, 5 and 6), therefore the claim made against me was not valid as 2 of the pcn’s have been cancelled and are no longer valid.

6.       No Notice to Driver was placed on the windscreen of the vehicle with the exception of 10/01/2015 where I appealed the charge. Therefore under POFA 2012 schedule 4, the time by which the Notices to Keeper should have been received were overdue.

7.       No notice to keeper was ever received for two of the charges (1255650100601 on 10/01/2015 and 1255650050516 on 05/01/2015 which is a violation of POFA 2012 schedule 4.

8.       Lack of Evidence. There was no evidence provided to myself showing the alleged breach with the number plate of my vehicle in view and any signage in view. There are only the images of the back of the vehicle showing the bay number and the vehicle registration printed on the notices to keeper that were provided.

 

 

 

Below is the chronological order of events as they took place.

 

I lived at the address XXXX between 6 December 2014 and 5 June 2015 (as seen in evidence referenced page 3), where there was private underground parking which was Managed by UKPC. The parking provided was closed off by an automatic shutter gate which required a remote to open. This is where i received a total of 7 parking charges in the space of 1 month - despite displaying a valid residents parking permit which was provided to me by the letting agency as part of my tenancy lease agreement ( as seen in evidence referenced page 3). The charges were received by me as Notices to Keeper at the address XXXX. After a lengthy and unnecessarily difficult appeals process, the first 2 that were issued (pcn ref. XXXXand pcn ref. XXXX) were cancelled by UKPC (as seen in evidence referenced pages 4, 5 and 6). I then received yet another 5 charges and after numerous correspondence back and forth where they became uncooperative and failed to provide me with the evidence requested (as seen in evidence referenced page 1), at this stage the cost escalated from £15 to £160 for the 5 tickets and they stated that they felt the tickets were issued correctly then refused any more correspondence regarding all tickets. I responded with a final letter in reply (as seen in evidence referenced page 1), stating that if they did not provide me with any and all evidence for each ticket within 14 days (from 31st March 2015) I would consider it an admission of incorrectly issued tickets and the matter concluded. I did not receive any further correspondence from UKPC and assumed the matter was closed. In February 2019 during a routine check of my credit report, I found that I have a default CCJ had been issued against me due to court action taken by UKPC without my knowledge, for all 7 tickets totaling £1,270 including fees. No intent of claim was received at the address XXXX yet this is the address where the notices to keeper were originally sent.

 

I believe the claimant has behaved unreasonably by not agreeing to the the appeals when a permit was provided, Not providing Notices to keeper either in time or at all, not using the correct address which they had used to send the notices to keeper. According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. UKPC’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results in an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system.

Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

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Looks reasonable, but ericsbrother can give some final pointers, it could be worth checking the Parking prankster's Blog for some cases to quote where a PPC has lost in  Court on a sue the Resident attempt where there is Supremacy of contract, and link them to that point in your defence..


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One small point. It's Defence, not Defense in British English, Michael. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Why are you writing a witness statement? You should be writing a defence.

 

You are talking about them sending letters to the address on your driving licence. They never have access to that information. The important thing is what was the address that the VEHICLE was registered to? Have they sent the NTK to the address on the V5?

 

 

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Apologies, I'll change defense to defence 

 

@Mrs O'Frog ok, I will get rid of the witness statement heading and merge it all into one. They did send the NTK to the address on the V5. 

 

@brassnecked yes, I am going to throw in some cases as well, once I get an idea of whether what I've got as is it's acceptable

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There are several on prankster regarding Supremacy og contract, basically the Occupiers rights usually trump any PPC brought in by a managing Agent. BUT it does vary The PPC falls usually as no locus Standi to sue anyone on their own behalf .


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@brassnecked yeah, I've seen some already, I'll print as much as I can at work tonight and include them. 

 

One thing that I'm unsure about, for the charge on10/01/15 where I actually appealed the charge, are they still required to send an NTK? I don't want this to trip me up

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