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    • Well If I pay British Gas £90 a month they’ll be paid off in about 17 months. That’s a long time but if it’s gunna effect my credit rating until November 2023 why bother paying it off early?    Ive worked out too the PDL default will be 6 years old on the 22/01/2020 so is there a point even doing anything with it? If it gets removed after 6 years does that mean I won’t have to pay it back?    Thanks  Andrew 
    • Minor developments:   a) Notification received that case has been referred to County Court at Chesterfield and we've to await the Judge's directions re allocation etc.    b) The letter I sent on 20th August to the agent (Lambert Smith Hampton) that manages the Berkeley Precinct and has its address on the board at the entrance, has been returned by the Royal Mail National Returns Centre, with a sticker saying the "addressee has gone away"!!   Don't they have an obligation to change the signage if they move, and why wouldn't such a large company have their mail re-directed?   The letter requested assistance in obtaining a copy of the contract between VCS and the landowner. I'm a bit mystified, but have found an additional address, so I could resend the letter and give it another try. 
    • urm.. FmoTl twaddle me thinks followed here
    • 123 Abc efg   22/09/2019 Dear Sir,   Re:  v xyz. Case No: 123456   CPR 31.14 Request   On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the county court of Salford.      I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.   Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:     1: The agreement/overdraft Facility Confirmation and Terms and Conditions from that date. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.   Failure to prove the above will render any claim unenforceable pursuant to section127 and 61b(3) CCA1974   2: The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974   3: Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C   4. Notice of Assignment *   You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience.. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.   Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.   In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.   If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.     Yours faithfully   Xyz. is this ok to send. and recorded delivery.
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Michael1990

Backdoor UKCPS CCJ for 7 PCNs 4 years after I changed address

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post up what yu want to say here before you commit to sending it. generally more is better, more previosu cases, more planning law, more pictures of rubbish signs etc. all these go in an indexs and you refer to them in your WS

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Hi guys,

I have finally had time to make a start on my defence.

I have done just a really quick start to get the ball rolling just so i know i am on the right path to writing a good defence.

 

Please have a read and let me know what you think

- I still have to add the Signage and reference the residential Losses which i will do once i get an idea of how to structure my defence.

 

Claim from: County Court Business Centre

Claim No. XX

Judgment Date: 02/01/2019

Claimant: UK Parking Control Ltd

Defendant:  XX

 

 

Witness Statement

 

1. I lived at the address, XX from 06/12/2014 to 05/06/2015.

 

2. Between 20/12/2014 and 10/01/2015 I received 7 parking charge notices from UKPC.

 

3. I contested the charges and corresponded with the claimant by post and email on several occasions, an example of both can be seen in the attached supporting evidence pages 1 and 2.

 

4. My appeal was upheld for the first two charges and these were cancelled by email as can be seen in the supporting evidence pages 4, 5 and 6, yet they were included in the claim.

 

5. I wrote a final letter of correspondence to UKPC on 31/03/2015 requesting that before the matter escalates any further, I would like UKPC to send me all relevant evidence regarding the alleged breach of contract and if I did not hear from them within 14 days ( by 14/04/2015) I would consider the matter closed.

 

6. I received no further correspondence from UKPC and assumed the other 5 charges had been cancelled.

 

7. I moved to my new address on 05/06/2015 which was 66 days after my final letter of correspondence.

 

8. I am unaware of UKPC having sent further correspondence to my former address, but if they had, I was not aware of this.

I had always corresponded with them in a timely fashion previously.

In the absence of a response, they should have had reason to doubt that the address was still my place of residence.

My address could have been verified by writing to me at the email address that they have.

 

 

Defence

 

Below are the key points which constitute my defence regarding the alleged breach of contract.

 

1.       1. Supremacy of contract, due to being a tenant on the property (as seen in evidence referenced page 3).

 

2.       2.The practice direction on pre-action conduct was not followed. I was not provided with any documentation regarding the alleged breaches, despite requesting it (as seen in evidence referenced page 1).

 

3.       3.Although I had changed address no attempt was made to contact me via alternatives to my previous address such as email to which UKPC was in possession (as seen in evidence referenced page 2). Furthermore they could have tracked my new address via the electoral roll.

 

4.       4.Two of the parking tickets (pcn ref. …. and pcn ref. 1...), which form part of the judgment, had in fact been cancelled by UKPC on 11 March 2015 (as seen in evidence referenced pages 4, 5 and 6), therefore the claim made against me was not valid as 2 of the pcn’s have been cancelled and are no longer valid. 

 

Below is the chronological order of events as they took place. 

 

I lived at the address XX between 6 December 2014 and 5 June 2015 (as seen in evidence referenced page 3), where there was private underground parking which was Managed by UKPC.

 

The parking provided was closed off by an automatic shutter gate which required a remote to open.

This is where i received a total of 7 parking charges in the space of 1 month

- despite displaying a valid residents parking permit which was provided to me by the letting agency as part of my lease agreement ( as seen in evidence referenced page 3).

 

After a lengthy and unnecessarily difficult appeals process, the first 2 that were issued (pcn ref. ... and pcn ref. 1...) were cancelled by UKPC (as seen in evidence referenced pages 4, 5 and 6). 

I then received yet another 5 tickets

 

after numerous correspondence back and forth where they became uncooperative and failed to provide me with the evidence requested (as seen in evidence referenced page 1),

 

at this stage the cost escalated from £15 to £160 for the 5 tickets and they stated that they felt the tickets were issued correctly then refused any more correspondence regarding all tickets.

 

I responded with a final letter in reply (as seen in evidence referenced page 1),

stating that if they did not provide me with any and all evidence for each ticket within 14 days (from 31st March 2015)

I would consider it an admission of incorrectly issued tickets and the case closed.

 

I did not receive any further correspondence from UKPC and assumed the matter was closed. In February 2019 during a routine check of my credit report, I found that I have a default CCJ had been issued against me due to court action taken by UKPC without my knowledge, for all 7 tickets totaling £1,270 including fees.

 

1.       1.At the time of the claimant issuing the tickets, I was a tenant on the property which provides me with supremacy of contract. The tenancy agreement has precedence over the contractual agreement that UKPC issued the charge under.

 

2.       2.I had corresponded with the claimant regarding the original PCN’s where they cancelled two of the charges. I had written to them demanding evidence for the other tickets, which they did not provide and I had given them 14 days from 31/03/2015 to supply all evidence to myself and if they did not I would consider this as an admission by the claimant that the PCN’s were incorrectly issued and I would consider the matter concluded. I moved from that address 66 days after the deadline I provided in my final letter and had received no further correspondence and therefore considered the matter concluded.

 

3.       3.Two of the parking tickets (pcn ref. 1255643581519 and pcn ref. 1255643540622), which form part of the judgment, had in fact been cancelled by UKPC on 11 March 2015 therefore the claim made against me is not valid as two of the pcn’s have been cancelled and the claim is for all 7 tickets.

 

4.       4.I did have in my vehicle the permit on display which could be seen.

 

5.       5.No Loss Suffered by Claimant:

Their claim is presumably based on damages for alleged breach of contract.

It is a fundamental principle of English Law that a party who suffers damages through breach of contract can only seek through court action to be put back in the same position as they would have been if the breach had not occurred.

In order to do so they must demonstrate their actual or genuine pre-estimate of loss.

 

I submit that no loss has been suffered by the claimant as a result of any alleged breaches of contract on the part of any driver of the vehicle of which I was the registered keeper.

 

I further submit that any loss to the landowner (which would be the only party able to claim such losses) would be minimal.

 

6.  .I believe the claimant has behaved unreasonably by not ensuring they used my correct contact details, which are available through, Electoral Register or emails that were made in the appeals process.

According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. UKPC’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results in an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system.

 

7.       7.Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim. Therefore, I believe that the default judgment against me was irregular and I respectfully request it is set aside.

 

Statement of Truth:

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

 

 

 

 

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it is a witness statement NOT a defence.

 

you need to refer to any documents you inc in your bundle as exhibit 1, 2 , 3 etc..


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Ah right, so should I just have the heading as "defense" and then put all the information in under that? 

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point 5, the Beavis decision make this redundant as long as the amount claimed is advertised and not "unconscionable".

That was set at £80 at the time but with mission creep the parking co's prefer £100 without saying how they arrive at that figure.

 

point 7. you already have the set aside, what you are now trying to do is show there is no casue for action so consider that instead.

 

now you need to show that apart from you having superiority of contract theat their sigange is pants or didint have planning permission or was prohibitive etc.

 

Never rely on one reason for fighting the claim,

the judge may have a different perspective to you and think that any old sign forces you to obey it unless you can show that the signage itself is wrong.

 

so PICTURES and diagrams of layout

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@ericsbrother 

ah ok I will remove point 5 then and apologies!

I was supposed to remove 7.

 

Just a quick thought I've just had,

what is the law regarding the notice to keeper?

I am struggling to get an understanding for it as I just realised something that might be important. 

 

I received 7 pcn's in total in an underground private parking,

there is no ANPR, which means that a ticket warden is the only way a ticket could be issued onto my vehicle through a notice to keeper for all 7 occasions

 

however! I only received 1!

Which was the very first one (which when I appealed was cancelled)

SO without ANPR and no more notices to keeper issued by a warden how is it possible I received another 6 "breaches" ??

I feel like that is why they never sent me any evidence when I requested at the time! 

 

What are your thoughts on this?

As I am going to add this to my defence but I'm not sure what the exact legal point I need to refer to around notice to keeper

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so you ask the DVLA who obtained your keeper details and when.

 

If they applied at the within time ( see POFA for time limits) or only asked 6 times when issuing 7 demands then they are knackered as they will lack either authority to create a liability or they have gone after the wrong person

( you werent the keeper if the DVLA didnt say you were so that may well kill one claim on its own and thus make them look dodgy for the rest regardless of getting some of the things right.

 

Your word will be taken in preference to theirs

( they will have proved themselves unreliable)

so if you say you only got 1 NTK

then the judge will agree with that even if they say they sent a hundred.

 

get the detail right and you will beat them easily because they havent and wont.

 

With luck they may just drop hands if you agree not to go after them for costs as they have raised that particular issue so they stand to be £255 out of pocket even if they can show they got 1 claim right as they will have to pay your costs

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Well, they would have gotten my details from the very first pcn where there was a NTK attached to my vehicle and I appealed the pcn giving my details to them.

 

As for the rest, they probably just fraudulently created them hoping to get more out of me (hence providing no evidence on request). 

 

But ok, I'm gonna add that into my witness statement too and I'll get back to you when it's in a better state. 

 

With regards to costs,

when do I mention this?

 

Do I add this into my defense or as extra?

And I'm not sure how to write that I want them them to pay the £255 set aside plus my missed wages for it.

If anyone has a link with a well written claim for their cost for me to have a look at I'd appreciate it :)

 

thanks!

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20 hours ago, Michael1990 said:

Ah right, so should I just have the heading as "defense" and then put all the information in under that? 

 

8 hours ago, Michael1990 said:

Do I add this into my defence or as extra?

 

11 hours ago, Michael1990 said:

As I am going to add this to my defence but I'm not sure what the exact legal point I need to refer to around notice to keeper

 

what part of this is a WITNESS STATEMENT are you not understanding??

it is in support of the defence you already filed.


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@dx100uk I have not filed any defense yet ..... I had a hearing for the CCJ which I got and I was instructed to send my "defense" by 24 May 2019. This is completely back to the claim stage now. 

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yes correct sorry...this is in reply to a successful set aside, now at the hearing stage

 

so remove the ref to this being a witness statement totally.

 

it is a defence toward the original claim Particulars of claim.

 

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

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The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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@dx100uk just to clarify, it IS a defense yes? 

 

Sorry I'm working nights and am easily confused at 4am 😄

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15 hours ago, Michael1990 said:

Well, they would have gotten my details from the very first pcn where there was a NTK attached to my vehicle and I appealed the pcn giving my details to them.

 

As for the rest, they probably just fraudulently created them hoping to get more out of me (hence providing no evidence on request). 

 

But ok, I'm gonna add that into my witness statement too and I'll get back to you when it's in a better state. 

 

With regards to costs,

when do I mention this?

 

Do I add this into my defense or as extra?

And I'm not sure how to write that I want them them to pay the £255 set aside plus my missed wages for it.

If anyone has a link with a well written claim for their cost for me to have a look at I'd appreciate it :)

 

thanks!

thye have to apply for the keeper details for each and every event, they cannot rel;y on them being the same on each occasion.

As for your comment about making up the other NTK's if you have the data from the DVLA you will be able to show that this is a possibility if they didnt apply for your details for each ticket otherwise they may produce the evidence of the enquiry and you will look like an idiot for ever suggesting such a thing.

 

You rely on facts so only make statements of fact and if for example they dont produce a contract between the landlord and themselves you can say that you BELIEVE that such a contract does not exist rather than shouting they have no right to be there. It puts the onus on them to PROVE they have a cause for action rather than letting them win because the judge thinks your defence is full of  fantasy.

 

Also you are submitting a DEFENCE, you are not playing american football. That defence bundle  will consist of a witness statement and other documents to support that.

Now what I would do today is send UKCPS a CPR 31.14 request for documents to have sight of the contract between them and the lnadowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name and for sight of the planning permission for their signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007. get this sent today and give them 14 days to respond so you can add an addendum to your defence if they dont produce it.

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@ericsbrother thanks for that info! I'll request that today then with scs law, their legal representative, or should I send it directly to ukpc? 

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ok @ericsbrother i have sent an email with to SCS Law requesting the agreement/contract using a template which i edited. This is what it looks like ;

 

SCS Law / LPC Law LTD

Level 34, 25 Canada Square, London,

E14 5LQ

 

 

Acting on Behalf of Claimant;

 

 

UK Parking Control LTD
The Apex, 2 Sheriffs Orchard
CV1 3PP

 

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

Claim Number: XXXX

 

 

Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

 

 

Template removed please do not post our templates to open forum....they are for members only

 

So! thats done now, but! shall i also send them a copy of this as a letter via post? I can print it off at work tonight and get it sent tomorrow as next day if thats recommended.

 

I am now emailing DVLA to find out for each ocassion who obtained my keeper details and when. Thanks for that bit of advice!

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Well, I'm not exactly sure of what I copied and pasted has come clearly, I'm on.my phone now. I'll look on my laptop soon and I'll delete that if it hasn't pasted correctly. 

 

However I did receive a response to the email as follows

 

"Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the above matter.

 

We acknowledge receipt of the same. We are currently taking instructions on this matter from our client and will respond to you substantively in due course.

 

Yours sincerely,"

 

so I'm just waiting on them now. 

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please do not post our templates in the open forum

read the top red line on the 31:14

 

this is what you should have sent

 

 

 


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@dx100uk ohhhh, damn, I just googled a template and found that one. I already emailed them. 

 

I'm hoping that email is good enough? I'm not sure what to do about that now then. 

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send our one too

ideally you should NEVER use email!!

 

send this one 

then send an email stating that your email address in NOT to be used to serve any paperwork concerning the case from them

their address is now blocked and bounced.

 

because they'll serve important documents 1 min before midnight and you'll then miss your legal right to reply.

 

royal mail only from now on

 

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Ok, I will use your one too and send it next day so they'll receive it Monday.

 

I will change the time frame to 7 days as time is limited though and less than 2 weeks by the time they receive it by post. 

 

I will also email them right now, telling them I do not want them to Hawes my email to serve paperwork and only by post. 

 

Thanks for that!

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you do not await ny reply.

file your defence on time regardless.

 

the std 2 or 3 line one

on every ppc claimform thread here already

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Yes, I will 100% get my defence in on time, it's just a bit difficult writing it up as im not clued up about this at all. 

 

What to do you mean the std 2 or 3 line one? 

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Right, Email to SCS Law telling them I do not want my email used to serve any paperwork AND the letter for request under CPR 31.14 are done! I will send the letter on the way home :) 

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