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    • Hello there,  I would be most grateful for any help or views on a distressing incident that occurred last summer, I can supply more info.  I am a 70 years old retired man and quite severely disabled I use a Mobilty Scooter and walking aids.  I had recently been admitted to hospital with an ongoing heart condition.     I was quite a frequent customer of my local Pub/Restaurant and I had previously submitted several verbal complaints regarding short measures of drinks.  The both managers took exception to this and told me that I was "Never happy until I found something to moan about"  The atmosphere in the Pub generally declined towards myself and I was certainly made to feel unwelcome.  Matters came to a head when I witnessed a dog, inside the Pub, attack a child (A Toddler) who had accidentally trodden on the Dog`s tail.  Fortunately the parents of the child and the owners of the dog reacted quickly and no injury occurred .  The pub was very busy at this time and the incident went somewhat unnoticed.  I brought the incident to the attention of one of the managers and he actually laughed, it was monstrous.  When the pub became quieter I remonstrated with the said manager and I stated that IMO it was dangerous to have dogs and children in such close proximity whist food is being served.  He became extremely unpleasant and told me in no uncertain terms that if I did not like it then to "Stop coming back"   Two days later whilst I was out in the next village with friends my wife rang to inform me that the Owner of the pub had called around to our home and told me wife that I was barred from the pub and to never venture there again; my wife was distressed, she never frequented the pub and the owner and my wife are not well known to each other.  It is my opinion that he had no right whatsoever, to include my wife in this matter and to do so within her own home whilst I was not present.      I returned home then went to the pub to enquire why the owner had visited my home, and upset my wife.  Whilst I was on the pub car park I was met by both the owner and the manager who both informed that I was barred as I had upset staff members.  No suitable explanation was forthcoming from the owner for the reason of his unwanted and unwelcome visit plus his aggressive manner whilst he talked down to my wife.  They both informed me that they would forcefully remove me if I did not leave the car park.   Due to the immense stress I was enduring I felt an urgent need to use the toilet, when i requested to do so I was denied.  I could not believe it, I was in such a hopeless state and was utterly distraught.  Finally I struggled out of the car park but entered the front of the pub and headed for the toilet however they caught up with me and I sat down on a stool and refused to move until i was granted access to the toilet, however they were both adamant that it would not be allowed.  I reminded them that i was disabled but the owner stated that I was `Milking It` and to "Go behind a hedge".  At least half an hour passed, since I had entered the pub, and the owner stated that he would call the Police, I had gathered my thoughts a little by this time and I stated to them that I would call the Police myself and then see if I would be allowed to use the toilets.  I feel the owner began to realise that he might be in trouble as when I began to make the phone call he stated that I could use the toilet however he would accompany me; i had no option but to concur with his somewhat sick condition.  I was forced to defecate whilst he stood immediately outside the door.  My humiliation and embarrassment was complete.    Two days later I wrote to the owner and informed that I was intending to sue him for disability discrimination related offences.  He chose to disregard what I had stated and replied stating that he had no intention of lifting the ban.  I replied stating that I had no desire to ever enter one of his pubs ever again and that he should re-read my letter and respond to the charges.  He did not reply.   I issued proceedings against him in the Small Claim Court for less than £400  (Some of my clothes and a she were damaged due to soiling).  He, rather surprisingly, instructed a solicitor who has threatened me with costs being awarded against me by the court which could run into many many thousands of pounds and that there was clearly no case for her client to answer.  I must admit to being rather alarmed.  The owner is a wealthy man.     The court have advised mediation and have even offered to award one hour of such FOC; I agreed, the defendant refused.  We now have a date for a hearing and I do not know exactly what to expect.  His court response states that he will be bringing two witnesses with him yet there was only he, the owner and the manager who were present.    Much of this was audio recorded and the owner is not disputing much of my statement.  I never threatened violence or used bad language during this most unpleasant incident.      Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated.   Kind regards.  --  tibar
    • My friend has told them this and got no response as yet nor any refund,  she  is giving them till about 2pm  to refund it or   will be  reporting it as fraud and  seeing the Police etc, have told her please  do not ever  do it again or drag me into it, I will do my best keep you updated   Sandy xx
    • Make sure you keep that email and print it out for safe keeping, just in case the PPC don't quite get the message.
    • Okay i've just sent the letters recorded delivery and have registered with the claims court. Just reading about PAP.
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Ruby_Tuesday

fit note for new UC Claim?

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I have gone from esa support group to a new claim for UC, triggered by a home move.  Jobcentre telling me my esa support group is not an automatic thing and that I need a fit note from my new GP to cover me for 2 months while its being sorted out....?  baffled

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Yeah that's technically right, as the two systems cannot communicate with each other.

 

They will have to manually transfer the WCA result over, however they should be able to look at opstrat (ESA), pin a note to UC and then send a handover to get it sorted.

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Thank you tomtom256.  At least I know where we are at.

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Phone UC helpline before end of assessment period, to make sure it has been dealt with. Otherwise you risk delay in receiving correct payment.

 

ESA support group equivalent under UC is Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity. Current rate is £328.32. 

 

Until this is added to your claim, you are under intensive work search group of UC. The fit note does not switch this off, but Job Centre may have placed a note on your record, not to require work search.  But not all Job Centre Work Coaches will do this,  therefore making sure it is dealt with, might also avoid hassle of Job Centre appointments for work search and related commitments.

 

 


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Thank you unclebulgaria67   I will do that today.

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So now they have got me a commitments meeting in just over a weeks time and have put a commitments entry on the account for me to agree to, but nothing as to what I am supposed to agree to apart from it will be in line with my situation/health etc. I have not agreed to it and I wont, even though it stays no agree = no benefit.  We have asked them to do the switchover but that message wasn't replied to as yet. If no reply today I will sit on the phone all day if necessary and get the helpline, I had a horrible panic attack in the night it was so scary I have never had one as bad as that and I have had some bad ones before.  Anyhow my daughter/carer will sit with me if I have to ring which I probably will.  I am glad now that the esa wasn't closed off as they would just say its a new UC claim.  The esa have only made one payment that shouldn't be but its safe in savings account to be repaid back asap.  

I am blessed however that my new GP knows a lot about Bipolar and the practice is very up on Fibromyalgia and he didn't think twice about giving me a fit note for 2 months.  He actually said its beyond words why they cant just do the swapover.  He was fine with me but not with them as the stress of this is really bad for me.  My daughter is typing this for me, I don't have the words right now but she can understand me and what I mean.  

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Everyone claiming UC has to have and agree to some commitments or the benefit gets closed.

 

If you are working they are generic, if you have limited capability or a job seeker they will be tailored to you.

 

A fit note or an existing WCA will not prevent this form happening as until commitments are agreed the claim is not technically live. If you fail to attend the appointment its an automatic claim closure and  and if refuse to accept them it's an automatic claim closure.

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Hi ...thanks for that. We have decided now that I will have to agree to the commitments thing, it also asks me to put in ideas for work or what I can do etc..which again with support group status I shouldn't be made to do..i don't know if its a tick box thing or a just a space I can fill in, if its a space I can type the limited capacity element.  Thank you for your reply, I am beside myself here but hopefully it should end up ok.

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They should switch off the work side of the commitments and just do the work preparation bit until the WCA is pulled across from ESA at which point you will have generic commitments auto created as you will fall in the no work requirements catagory.

 

In my jobcentre it's just a box ticking exercise until the information is transferred and we don't normally book any further appointments after that. But most jobcentres do it there own way as there is no official guidance on this and insufficient staff to run it smoothly.

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Thank you tomtom256 its just all so stressful for me but I get where your coming from.  I feel more at ease with it now.

 

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Universal Credit has had large number of applications in the last month or so. The reason being is that people have finished off seasonal Christmas/new year sales work and are now needing to claim. Also in the new year, you tend to get a lot of people going through change in circumstances.

 

Why this affects you ? Because the admin staff processing UC will be dealing with the extra work load, it causes a delay in the current ESA Support group being transfered across to UC claims.

 

 The UC system flags up any claims where there has been another benefit claim that might affect UC. Teams then look into these and transfer across any existing entitlements. Because the teams will be dealing with higher volumes of work, it causes a delay in your claim being updated.

 

If you get to the end of the assessment period, with continued Job Centre work search requirements and no sign that the ESA support has been transfered, then call the UC helpline. They can call ESA for information, so they can update your UC claim.

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Thank you again unclebulgaria67, with my mind in a muddle naturally, this is all so complicated for me to get, my daughter is good but the workings of all this is beyond us.  What you have said as usual makes perfect sense, notes taken for the reminder board in my kitchen.

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Read this https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/11307/P|

 

They can look at CIS to find out your status and they know they can!

 

An over 8 weeks fit note auto triggers a new WCA under UC so......

 

Either way your tailored UC claimant commitment .........

 

Equality act - local law centre/cmpg/etc bang 😀

 

 

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CIS doesn't show WCA though only what amount is being paid. "where ESA is in payment staff manually check whether a component was in place and, if so, put the corresponding element on the UC award"

 

So they still have to check OPSTRAT.

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they basically made me get a fit note and said the longer the better as I wouldn't then have to keep going back while they sorted it out.  my new gp put the long term illnesses down and stated I am not fit to work. we have put all the suggestions here in the journal to the work coach. my next haul in for questioning is about a week away.

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I am also still within the wca time as I only got assessed a few months ago and the jobcentre guy doing the id appt said that too.  I feel ill with it/all this, on top of my other health problems.  I am not a natural migration claimant, this was triggered due to a home move.  

Edited by Ruby_Tuesday
missed out something

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The thing now is, I will do the commitments thing and the appointment, but it says on there to come up with ideas for work….can I put my limited capability for work and work related activity there, or leave it blank? I don't know if its a tick box thing or a space to type in, I have no idea what its set up like.

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Don't do the to-do where it asks about work etc, wait and go through it with the work coach at the commitments appointment and mention what we have discussed here.

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Thanks tomtom256 I will do that.

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On 17/03/2019 at 17:55, tomtom256 said:

So they still have to check OPSTRAT.

 

Incapacity Benefit Computer System (OPSTRAT) Systems Administration

 

RM is on ESA and rigshts net talks CIS.

 

If I'm wrong its all good! If not I'd rather have RMw prepped for worst case. 

 

If you understand worst case you can fight and beat anything lower than that! 

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Worst case is it takes a few weeks to get sorted, you can't get lower than that.

 

OPSTRAT holds all legacy benefit data and is an MSDOS package, hence why it cannot automatically talk with or be uploaded to UC. It's outdated an not really fit for purpose anymore.

 

CIS can talk with UC, but only holds basic information i.e. dates of claim, amounts paid, benefit interests etc. It does not hold information on premiums, WCA outcomes or periods WCA is awarded for, what group you are in or when next assessment is due. It is a basic info system designed to share data with other government agencies/LA benefit staff.

 

Even if the service centre manually checks OPSTRAT, they still have to follow guidance in order to transfer it to UC and complete the necessary action, which at worst can take a few weeks. However if mentioned to a work coach during an initial or first commitment appointment they can do the checks there and then, pin it to UC notes and send a handover to the service centre, which greatly speeds up the process for all involved.

Edited by tomtom256
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On my to do list was only to accept the commitments which turned out to be to just check it every day and if I cant get online to ring the freephone number, now the to do list is empty.  My daughter sent a message via the journal re the support group status and we have all the helpful comments made here written down for the first commitments meeting.  

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So....now they are sending me a questionare about my illness and how they affect me with a possible medical assessment....even though the guy I saw last week said they wouldn't.  It beggars belief. My daughter is typing this for me as she almost always does on here. 

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So again …. we rang the uc help line...my support group status is on and I don't need any appointments with jobcentre.  So when the questionnaire arrives I guess I still have to send it off? even though the agent on the phone said its just a triggered thing for a new claim....but if I don't need one I wont have one? am guessing that's the medical assessment bit?.  my last one was may 2018 and put back in support group june 2018.

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1 hour ago, Ruby_Tuesday said:

So when the questionnaire arrives I guess I still have to send it off?

 

unfortunately because uc has automated triggers built in apparently (only anecdotal evidence) a fit note of 8 or longer weeks trips the computer to send out a uc50.

 

How many GPs will know that as they try and reduce needless appointments and stress for their patients.... my last fit note was for 6 months! only because I keep up to speed due to paranoia I'll be asking for 7 on transference.  

 

You should never have been asked for a fit note by the DwP as you had a support group award and that should have carried over. from what's being written by rigthsnet advisors about this that and the other it's pretty clear from tomtom256 posts that what they have been told is quite wide of reality.

 

If you can lodge a complaint and maybe see if somebody mentioned in the rightsnet thread would be interested in taking an early warning/maladministration case forward. 

 

It's absolute pony but once triggered the DwP will hide behind the we can reassess at any time so I feel for you!

 

Received today my appointment for ESA face to face dated 15th for 27th - unknown telephone call yesterday I didn't answer as only my landlady has that number and Dwp... so I think they are playing silly buggers again. Life sucks )

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