Arrow Claimform - old HSBC OD debt

[robinjw]

Ok well I managed to get through to the court this morning the claim number is real.

It has been on hold since the court say that I filed an acknowledgement on 25th July 2017 because defence was entered.

 

I honestly could not remember filing an acknowledgement as at that time I would have just come back from away working in Spain for a few months from Feb until end of May 2017.

However, I checked all my emails and a friend who works in debt industry had told me to acknowledge, so I must have done.

 

the case is currently on hold as no defence was entered.

No judgements have been filed.

They say I can now file a defence via email as soon as possible which I have an email for.

They court have my correct address on file.

 

Can someone please help me with some wording or a defense as I am fairly sure this would have been statute barred anyway?

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to Financial Legal Issues forum in view of the court claim...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Plenty of examples of defences in the following forum.....adapt to suit your particulars.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/129-legal-successes/

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Have you got a copy of the N1 (Court claim) with the claimants particulars of claim..did you ask for a copy when you spoke to Northampton?  

Difficult to draft a defence without the particulars of claim.

[robinjw]

Ive looked through all my documents and cant find the court claim.

The court have sent me this as the particulars of claim via email just now:

( no actual document was sent just this reply)

 

 

Particulars of Claim:

Claimant Solicitor Details SHOOSMITHS LLP (1574) [the is a Link Financial ref on the claim not Arrow Global or Drydens]

 

1. THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM IS FOR THE SUM OF £xxx BEING MONIES DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE DEFENDANT INCURRING AN OVERDRAFT WHILST OPERATING A BANK ACCOUNT (ACCOUNT NO. XXX) WITH HSBC PLC. THE DEBT WAS ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON 13/05/2011 AND NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT PROVIDED TO THE DEFENDANT, PURSUANT TO THE LAW OF PROPERTY ACT 1925.

 

2. PAYMENT OF THE ABOVE SUM HAS BEEN REQUESTED, BUT AS AT THE DATE HEREOF REFUSED.

 

3. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF £XX. C HAS COMPLIED, AS FAR AS IS NECESSARY, WITH THE PRE-ACTION CONDUCT PRACTICE DIRECTION.

 

Please can someone help me draft a defence for this?

 

Ive replied on the other thread as requested, have now received the court claim particulars via email just now.

[AndyOrch]

Here is an example current account overdraft defence...its from another user so you will have to edit it to suit your particulars/actions.

 

#####Defence Current Account example######

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.
 

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant having use of a facility to overdraw with the original creditor XXXXXXX Bank.

2. The defendant denies that the alleged amount was for finance service or goods but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account.

3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed consists totally of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

(a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.
(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
(c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.
(d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
(e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
(f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

6. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated XX XXXXX 2014 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Regards

Andy

[robinjw]

Thank you. Couple of questions:

Should I not include something about statute barring re the various dates given above, together with the claim that the account was defaulted in?

Re part 6 and the "documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated XX XXXXX 2014 "- should that be replaced with todays date?

My credit file only goes back as 2013, and no defaults or listing of this bank account is on there at all, is this relevant to the defense too?

 

[AndyOrch]

Was it statute barred in July 2017 at the time the claim was issued ?

 

Part 6 is not applicable to you if you have not sent a CPR 31.14 request...as stated you will have to edit it to suite your circumstances and debt and claim...but thats the back bone of draft defence for a overdraft as you requested

[robinjw]

I dont know if it was statute barred.

Their court claim above states it was instigated on 13/05/2011 which is impossible as  I had no account with HSBC since the 90's.

 

I had a DMP via Stepchange which has caused a lot more issues than it solved to be honest.

That started in 15/6/2015 which this debt was listed as part of

( they should have advised me it was already statute barred by then).

 

I paid the DMP for 1 year at which time it automatically stopped

( which I was not aware of until 6 months after the fact.)

So I may have inadvertently been paying.

 

Is it safer just to file the overdraft defence you listed and not mention statute barring?

[robinjw]

Just a thought

 

In the notes I took from the phone call with the court this morning they said it was 'on hold, stayed, no action yet pending my defence submission.

So, I should just send the defence today via email anyway to cover myself?

[AndyOrch]

Yes .....Its by the by who actually is the claimant for now...but you need to get clarity when you get chance.

 

Edit the example defence as suggested and submit it to stop default judgment.

[robinjw]

Already had it ready to send, just wanted to be sure.

Have sent it now.

Have also posted the SAR to HSBC as suggested.

 

Thanks for your help.

[robinjw]

Just a little update,

I put in my defence and the court has replied to me saying that they will serve a copy to the claimant or their sols.

 

They say the claimant may try to contact me direct to resolve a dispute.

If unresolved they inform the court how to proceed.

 

If they proceed they must contact the court within 28 days of getting my defence.

After that the claim will be stayed and the only action would be for them to request a stay lift.

So, I await a response from Global which Im sure I'll get next week sometime.

[renegadeimp]

IF you ever get a response from them

[robinjw]

Quick question, if the debt collectors dont respond and the court put a 'stay' on it after 28 days, does that mean it cant be picked up again by any debt company?

[dx100uk]

Tough on them if they do

 

[renegadeimp]

It could get picked up by another company but theyd be in the same position as the last.

[robinjw]

Just a quick update to this thread. I finally received a letter today from Drydens Fairfax stating that they have closed the case and returned it to the client.

 AWESOME!

I am only left wondering if I should do something re the court now- I saw someone else mention the stay, can I request the court close the case in some way too so it does not get recycled again by another debt collector?

[dx100uk]

you cant.

doesn't mean its over

the next move is arrows.

but whichever way it goes

they'll have to pay a fee to lift the stay 

if they do 

you'll get notification from the court.

 

did you ever get to the bottom of how Link made the court claim

and then sold it onto Arrows?

dx

 

[robinjw]

Why is it not over if the case is closed?

Do they have other moves, or is it just that another company could try their luck?

 

No, Ive no idea how Link did that or why they would do it unless it was an admin error on their part, just glad its over for now at least as everyone who has chased that debt since the 90's has been very aggressive.

 

Just glad I caught it in time so I can at least get more breathing space without constant harrassment.

Thanks again for the help, really do appreciate it.

[AndyOrch]

The claim has not been discontinued...simply the Solicitor dealing has pulled out..perhaps if we could see the letter from Drydens Fairfax ?

[robinjw]

I see. The letter literally states "In ref to Arrow Global xxx acct number. Please note that our file has been closed and returned to our client."

There is nothing else in the letter.

[AndyOrch]

Returned to Arrow...who should inform you of a change of solicitor.....the claim is still live.

[robinjw]

On the court papers it said they had 28 days to respond. They didnt respond until about two months had passed and Ive had no word from the court. Does that fact effect anything going forward?

[dx100uk]

already explained in my last post go back and read it again