PCN for parking during restricted hours

[thelife]

I received a PCN 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours on Trent Road in Brixton.

 

I parked on a single yellow line. There are no plates on adjacent posts to provide the prescribed hours.

 

The Controlled Zone does not start for some 20m beyond where I parked.

 

My car is roughly where the Blue BMW is in this Google Street View https://goo.gl/maps/vf7JLM9VKrp 

 

Looking at the beneath map, it would appear that the red zone should extend to the beginning of the Controlled Zone, but instead they have marked it as a single yellow.

 

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/CPZ Boundaries - Carton Map (OCT 18).pdf

 

Because a single yellow line outside of a controlled zone should be accompanied by hours of restriction, I think I should be successful in my appeal.

 

What do others think?

 

[Michael Browne]

I agree, there should be a timeplate for the SYL. It's doubtful that Lambeth will agree, so you need to be prepared to go to adjudication

[Jamberson]

I don't think you are outside of a controlled zone. I think the sign is placed at the crossing point from one zone into another. If that's correct, you are subject to the underlying restriction for the zone you are in.

[Michael Browne]

10 hours ago, Jamberson said:

I don't think you are outside of a controlled zone. I think the sign is placed at the crossing point from one zone into another. If that's correct, you are subject to the underlying restriction for the zone you are in.

If that were the case the reverse of the CPZ entry sign would also be an entry sign. It's not:

https://goo.gl/maps/BFcq3SqFruB2

 

If you cross Brixton Hill the next CPZ starts at the end on the red route lines in Brixton Water Lane.

[Jamberson]

The back of the sign should be another entry sign going the other way.

 

On Google Maps I saw other SYLs on that same side of the sign, without timeplates. I also looked at a map of the area, and it seems to be nothing but zones all over, although the key to the map wasn't very clear.

 

I honestly don't know, but it's hard to imagine there's no controlled zone of any sort in that area. I think the PH should so a bit of local research.

[Michael Browne]

It's likely that the CPZ is meant to run from the end of the red route as shown in GSV in 2009

https://goo.gl/maps/T3S4hhop1X72

 

but by 2012 that sign has disappeared and been replaced by one in the current position

https://goo.gl/maps/eFvJhaF5mMH2

 

which effectively leaves the SYL in no-mans-land  without timeplate and not covered by a CPZ

Edited March 13, 2019 by Michael Browne

[ericsbrother]

A syl shuld have its own plate  so the ones on the other side of the road dont apply.

 

If they rely on just the traffic order and your knowledge of that or signage elsewhere that isnt good enough and at worst you can claim that the signage is inadequate and confusing. To me this area is before the CPZ according to the signs so usual rules for street signs apply.

 

What they want and what is reality are 2 different things. The law cannot depend on psychic motorists

[thelife]

Still no response from Lambeth, 22 days after appeal.

 

Thanks for the responses. To be honest, I parked there thinking that I have found some form of loophole and had done so for several years with no ticket. This is the first time they have ticketed me. I don't park there all day, but if I have reason to go into my children's school, I will park there. Maybe three times per year. Hopefully they will uphold my challenge and not make any changes so I can go back to parking there.

 

I will keep you updated.

[ericsbrother]

completely irrelevnat so dont even think about using it as an argument ar PATAS. the paint job there means there must be a relevant plate and there isnt. the CPZ plates dont cover the area so the council got it wrong.

remind them by email and phone and tell them you want to take the matter further formally

[thelife]

I got my response today. It looks like they haven't read my challenge at all and just sent the standard response to queries about yellow lines. 

 

It states how I would be allowed to load or unload but the CEO looked and saw no loading or unloading.

 

How double yellow lines can not allow parking at any time, single yellows relate to the plate, which I had told them there isn't one, and how I may have entered a controlled zone without realising, which I hadn't.

 

My problem is that my car is a lease car, so the registered owner and keeper is a finance company. In order to escalate this, I have to do nothing until 20th April, when Lambeth will issue a NtO EN. This is going to go to the finance company and I am worried they will just pay up and send me the bill.

 

I will email them this evening telling them not to pay under any circumstances and then see how they respond.

[thelife]

The leasing company have told me that when they receive the fine from Lambeth, they will pay it automatically and then take the money from me by direct debit.

 

So it means I cannot challenge this fine.

 

When I look at the response, it makes no mention of the specifics of the area in which I parked. Only what should be the case in a properly signed and designated area, which this isn't. I am sure I would win this at appeal.

 

But because my car is leased, I am going to have to take this on the chin.

 

Awful.

[Manxman in exile]

I'm not sure the lease company should automatically pay it(?).

 

What do your lease T&Cs say about parking fines?

 

(Sorry for late reply).

[thelife]

Sorry for not responding sooner. I hate people who ask for help then never come back when they have had a resolution.

 

While I am certain that the road is incorrectly marked and/or signed and that I should not have been ticketed, I ended up paying the PCN after it was rejected at the initial stage. The next stage was due to go to the lease company and the person there told me:

 

"As discussed, our fines system doesn’t allow for manual intervention, it processes all received fines, pays the monies to the issuing authority and then recharges with an administration fee. There is nothing we can do to prevent this. Once this is complete, you will be sent a copy of the fine for your reference."

 

The girl I was dealing with said that the clause which allows them to do so is:

 

 

Clause 10 – Liability

10.1       You shall pay us the amount of any claims, liabilities, losses, damages, or expenses, including legal fees, and any liability resulting from legislation for the payment of fines or penalties for parking, driving or similar offences incurred by us relating in any respect to the Vehicle hired. Furthermore, we shall be entitled to charge you a reasonable administration fee.

 

 

I don't see that I had any choice other than to pay it. Pay £65  or else let it go to the leasing company who will pay £130 and slap on an admin fee. And then when I try to challenge with Lambeth, the fact it has been paid means that they won't look into it.

 

So that's that. Another win for Lambeth and a loss for me.

 

Thank you for your help everyone.

Edited June 27, 2019 by thelife