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FabledFabia

MSI Trade Centre - 2008 Skoda Fabia, rejection for full refund.

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Hello,

I need some help and guidance please. I am sorry this is a very long post but all help is greatly appreciated.

9th of February I purchased a 2008 Skoda Fabia Diesel, 77430 miles, for £2150. paid the full amount via visa debit card.

15th of February, electric front passenger window stopped working and was stuck in an open position. Took the car to a local garage and was told the window regulator was broken, I was quoted £170 for repairs. I rang the seller, they said I could either drop the car off with them for free repair or I could accept a payment of £70 to go towards the cost of repair. I live in Rugby and the seller is in Birmingham, so I decided to just accept the payment of £70. The seller told me the money would be transferred to my account “within a few days”.

23rd of February I took the car for a free Halfords safety check. They The found a serious oil leak, they also drew my attention to the fact that the amber engine management light was on. They advised me to take the car back to the dealer. I dropped the car of with the dealer for repairs. When I asked how long repairs would take, I was told the repairs should be complete by Monday afternoon.

The following week, I received no updates from the dealer .I rang on the 27th of February and was told the work should be complete “by the 29th latest”.

29th of February, I rang the seller at 14:00 hours and told them I would like to reject the car because repairs were taking too long and I did not have any other car. I told them I would be happy to accept a partial refund seeing as I had used the car for 2 weeks. The seller then told me I could not reject the car because the work was complete.

I collected the car on the 2nd of March. The seller gave me an invoice for £250 which showed the work which had been done:

  • Transmission
  • Recondition Gearbox and seals
  • Drive Shaft Seal

The seller also informed me that the amber engine management light issue had been resolved. They also paid me £70 cash for the window regulator repair.

3rd of March, the amber engine management light came back on. I rang the seller and informed them of the issue, I told them I wanted to reject the car. The seller refused the rejection and said he would have someone call me the next day. I told the seller I am happy to go the legal route, and he told me “no problem, we have very good lawyers”. I went to autotrader and left a 1 star review detailing these car issues.

4th of March, the seller rang me and insulted me on the phone regarding my ‘bullshit review’ the seller said he was planning on telling accounts to issue me a refund but he would not be doing that because of my ‘bullshit review’.

I took the car for a diagnosis, I paid £45 to get the light diagnosed. The issue report said:

  • 19586
  • EGR system; upper threshold reached
  • intermittent

Garage told me the car would enter ‘limp mode’, I was quoted £323 to have the issue fixed.

I rang citizens advise and explained my situation. I was advised to send a letter via registered signed for mail, formally rejecting the car and giving the seller 14 days to issue a refund. I sent this via email (Along with the relevant receipts) on 4th March. I also posted out the letter and got confirmation of delivery on the 5th of March.

I stopped using the car on the 4th of March. It is currently parked on my driveway.

6th of March I cancelled the car insurance.

The car has 400 additional miles since I bought it, this includes the 50 Miles spent taking the car from Rugby to Birmingham and back (for the repairs).

My understanding is I now have to wait 14 working days for a response (even though the seller works on weekends), if I haven’t heard back in 14 working days ,I send a ‘ letter before claim’ telling the seller they have 7 days to issue a refund before I take them to court.

If I still hear nothing, I then make a claim.

Questions:

The seller has not responded to the letters/emails, do I have to send them any reminders or do I just wait?

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I have no idea why you haven't told us the name of the dealer. Are you trying to protect them?

Citizens Advice should also have told you to threaten a legal action in your 14 day letter. You haven't done this. It is pointless sending letters giving people 14 days to do something – without outlining the consequences of not doing it. It's like saying I'll huff and I'll puff and then… well I'll do something.

Send them exactly the same letter again but at the bottom you can add in handwriting – if you want – "for the avoidance of doubt this is a letter before claim and at the expiry of 14 days I shall be seeing you in the County Court if I do not have my refund. I will also be seeing you for additional losses which I have suffered."

I suppose that the dealer is on going to take any notice of you – so go and register onto the County Court's money claim website – it's free – and start getting to understand how to use it.

Start drafting your particulars of claim. You can save your work and then on day 15 after you have sent the amended letter, simply sue them. Don't give them any further notice. Just issue the papers.

Your chances of success are better than 95%. Of course you will then be faced with the problem of enforcing the judgement and I would suggest that assuming that they don't defend, and that you get a judgement, then you have the matter transferred up immediately to the High Court using an H CEO process.

I would suggest the particulars of claim would be:
 

Quote

the claimant bought a Skoda car registration number XXX from the defendant for £XXX on XXX date. On XXX date the vehicle developed faults which the defendant has refused to repair or has refused to repair without payment. The claimant has incurred additional costs of £total XXX – to try and resolve the situation himself. The claimant has asserted his short-term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act but the defendant has refused to give any refund.
The claimant seeks a refund of the purchase price and also the recovery of costs reasonably incurred plus interest

get going without and see how it goes. Who is the dealer?

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On 08/03/2019 at 15:29, BankFodder said:

I have no idea why you haven't told us the name of the dealer. Are you trying to protect them?

Citizens Advice should also have told you to threaten a legal action in your 14 day letter. You haven't done this. It is pointless sending letters giving people 14 days to do something – without outlining the consequences of not doing it. It's like saying I'll huff and I'll puff  and then… well I'll do something.

Send them exactly the same letter again but at the bottom you can add in handwriting – if you want – "for the avoidance of doubt this is a letter before claim and at the expiry of 14 days I shall be seeing you in the County Court if I do not have my refund. I will also be seeing you for additional losses which I have suffered."

I suppose that the dealer is on going to take any notice of you – so go and register onto the County Court's money claim website – it's free – and start getting to understand how to use it.

Start drafting your particulars of claim. You can save your work and then on day 15 after you have sent the amended letter, simply sue them. Don't give them any further notice. Just issue the papers.

Your chances of success are better than 95%. Of course you will then be faced with the problem of enforcing the judgement and I would suggest that assuming that they don't defend, and that you get a judgement, then you have the matter transferred up immediately to the High Court using an H CEO process.

I would suggest the particulars of claim would be:
 

get going without and see how it goes. Who is the dealer?

Thank you so much for your response. The dealer is MSI Trade Centre, I didn't name them in case that was against the rules.

I thought I had to said a warning letter first and then send a ' letter before claim'.

I will create a new letter and get it sent out. Is email OK or does it have to be post?

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By the way, you paid with a debit card. A shame that you didn't pay with a credit card – but anyway, start a chargeback process with your bank. They won't like it – but get it going anyway. Don't hold your breath on that one.

Also, I see that they are apparently a limited liability company – although there are no company details on their website so far as I can see and therefore they are acting unlawfully.

When you name the company in your claim, I would suggest that you described them as "MSI Trade Centre Ltd – trading as MSI Trade Centre". Do you have a receipt and what does the receipt say?

I suggest that you check them up in the companies house website – search on companies house web check.

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4 hours ago, BankFodder said:

By the way, you paid with a debit card. A shame that you didn't pay with a credit card – but anyway, start a chargeback process with your bank. They won't like it – but get it going anyway. Don't hold your breath on that one.

Also, I see that they are apparently a limited liability company – although there are no company details on their website so far as I can see and therefore they are acting unlawfully.

When you name the company in your claim, I would suggest that you described them as "MSI Trade Centre Ltd – trading as MSI Trade Centre". Do you have a receipt and what does the receipt say?

I suggest that you check them up in the companies house website – search on companies house web check.

Thank you so much for taking your time to help me. Sorry for the late response. I have attached the invoice here. along with the car diagnosis which was carried on on 4th March.

I have sent out a letter and an email

"08/03/2019

Dear Sir or Madam,  

 
For the avoidance of doubt, my previous letter (dated  04/03/2019) is a letter before claim and at the expiry of 14 working days I shall be suing you in the county court if I do not have my refund. I will also be suing you for the additional losses which I have suffered.
 
Yours faithfully,"
 
the letter was sent via signed for post, and within the envelope I included a copy of the previous letter. I will start drafting out a claim.
 

car_purchase_invoice_09_feb_2019.jpg

car_diagnosis_4_march_2019.pdf car_diagnosis_invoice_4_march_2019.pdf

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What are the "relevant terms and conditions overleaf"? Decent scan rather than a photograph please

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Just now, BankFodder said:

What are the "relevant terms and conditions overleaf"? Decent scan rather than a photograph please

Sorry, I don't have a scanner at home, I'll scan the documents at work on Monday and upload a PDF. The other side of the page is blank. So not sure what the "relevant terms and conditions overleaf" refers too. 

I have just phoned the bank regarding a chargeback, and they say they'll send me some documents "within 14 days", I'll fill in the documents and send them back to the bank.

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If it's blank then don't worry.

I hope you won't mind me saying that our help is free but we do expect people to help us by providing good quality scans – and if that means spending our money on a £49 scanner from PC World then it's probably good value.

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1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

If it's blank then don't worry.

I hope you won't mind me saying that our help is free but we do expect people to help us by providing good quality scans – and if that means spending our money on a £49 scanner from PC World then it's probably good value.

OK, going forward I'll make sure I only submit high quality scans.

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Hi BankFodderthanks again for all your help, but I have decided not to sue the dealer. Having looked at other peoples experiences, I can see that the court process takes a very long time, I was ready and willing to wait 2 months or so but it looks like this process can take up to 6 months.

 

And even at the end of it all, a win is not guaranteed. 

 

I will pay the 323 to get the car repaired myself.

 

Thanks again for your assistance. I will be making a small donation when I get paid at the end of the month.

  • Like 1

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Okay, good luck. I hope you don't have any more problems.

Thanks for the offer of the donation – but please don't worry about it. You haven't had a result. Please feel free to come back here whenever you need to – and let other people know about us.

That's the most important thing

 

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Just to add, that you could consider getting the work done in order to get the car back on the road and then sue for the money you have spent out.

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21 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Just to add, that you could consider getting the work done in order to get the car back on the road and then sue for the money you have spent out.

Thank you. I will get car back on the road and then look at seeing for repair costs.

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I think even though you pay this dealer the money for repairing the vehicle, you should make it clear that you're not very happy about it.

 

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Posted (edited)

Just to add that I would not trust a diagnosis report from Halfords,  You would be better off getting one from an Inde or even a Skoda dealer.  However the garage are not honouring your rights under CRA 2015 so that is an issue.

Edited by Surfer01

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2 hours ago, BankFodder said:

I think even though you pay this dealer the money for repairing the vehicle, you should make it clear that you're not very happy about it.

 

How do I make it clear that I am not happy?

15 minutes ago, Surfer01 said:

Just to add that I would not trust a diagnosis report from Halfords,  You would be better off getting one from an Inde or even a Skoda dealer.  However the garage are not honouring your rights under CRA 2015 so that is an issue.

Thank you, I have the car booked at an independent garage this Friday, we'll see what they say.

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Well I would simply tell them – preferably in writing – the although you are agreeing to have the car repaired by them and pay the price that they are asking, you do consider that it is not very fair the day, which you have only just bought should require this kind of attention and that you should be held responsible for it.

However, it's starting to dawn on me that you are taking diagnosis from other sources and then asking your dealer to carry out the repair on that basis.

This could be a dangerous thing to do. You immediately split responsibility so that each party can blame the other. This is a bit like getting a central heating boiler installed – buying the unit from a supplier and then getting a separate installer to fit it. When it goes wrong, the supplier blames the installer – and the installer blames the supplier. It's piggy in the middle – and you are Piggy.

You have already bought a motorcar that is highly suspect – from a dealer who frankly on the basis of what you say is highly suspect and doesn't seem to care much for consumer rights.

From what I understand, you are receiving a diagnosis from one source and then getting somebody else to repair it. If the repair fails then the repairer – the dealer – will turn round and say "I simply did what you told me to do" – and he would be right. You would then have to decide to find out from someone else as to whether it was the diagnosis which was wrong or the repair which was wrong.

I think that you are playing around with a load of trouble and I'm sure you're not enjoying this experience anyway. I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't have bought the car again had you known.

I think that you are being led around by the nose. I'm afraid this is another instance of somebody buying a very cheap second hand vehicle from a dealer so far away from their home, that the whole prospect of having to transport the car for repair and then travel back home actually becomes a factor in whether or not you decide to stand up for your rights are not.

In the past couple of days I have been helping somebody in a rather more extreme position – they live in Scotland and they bought a car in Essex. It was a Mercedes for which they paid £3700. That was really asking for trouble – and that's precisely what they got.

Your situation is not so extreme – but it's still not a great position to be in. It sounds to me (I'm sorry to say this) that you bought a bad bargain and now you are starting to throw money at it and I suspect that this will be a continuing story.

My best advice to you would be to cut your losses and to sue for the reimbursement of the money you have spent. Of course it's up to you to arrange your priorities in a way which suit your life.

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Thanks all for your continued assistance. I have received the email below from msi trade centre:

 

Quote

Hi Mr  xxxxxxxx

 
Further to your email i apologise you feel the vehicle wasn’t repaired to your standard of quality.
 
We are willing to pay the sum of £323 for you to take the vehicle garage of your choice to get the EGR issue resolved. This way you will have peice of mind that the car has been repaired at your garage and you will be confident the issue will is sorted with the EGR.  
 
If you can take the car to the garage and carry out repairs they can invoice us MSI Trade Centre Ltd we will pay them directly upon recipient of invoice.
 
Kind Regards
xxxxxxxx
Msi Trade Centre

 

I am happy for them to do this, but I'm not sure the garage will accept this arrangement (I will ask them anyway).

 

If the garage refuses, am I OK to make a counter offer and say I will pay the costs myself, but I will then send MSI trade centre the invoice and have them send me the payment that's due within 7 working days?

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Yes of course. You are free to negotiate anything you want.

 

I wouldn't express it as a counter offer. It sounds a bit too legalistic. Simply write to them and thank them and say to them that you will try to propose what they have suggested but if the repair garage prefers to be paid directly by you, then you will come back to them and present them with the invoice – and is that okay?

 

I have to say that what they are suggesting is very decent – but on the other hand it is no more then you would reasonably expect as a consumer who expects to get what they paid for – a car of satisfactory condition which last that way for a reasonable period time

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33 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Yes of course. You are free to negotiate anything you want.

 

I wouldn't express it as a counter offer. It sounds a bit too legalistic. Simply write to them and thank them and say to them that you will try to propose what they have suggested but if the repair garage prefers to be paid directly by you, then you will come back to them and present them with the invoice – and is that okay?

 

I have to say that what they are suggesting is very decent – but on the other hand it is no more then you would reasonably expect as a consumer who expects to get what they paid for – a car of satisfactory condition which last that way for a reasonable period time

Thank you, I have responded to them as per you comment above.

 

I just hope we can come to an amicable resolution so that I can put this whole saga behind me.

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I hope so as well – but I think that you had better decide for yourself what is your own redline and get ready to act if it is crossed. You can't keep on giving ground like this.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BankFodder said:

I hope so as well – but I think that you had better decide for yourself what is your own redline and get ready to act if it is crossed. You can't keep on giving ground like this.

Yes. Lets see how the refund of the £323 repair costs goes, so far they are acting reasonably but I guess I shouldn't count my chickens before they've hatched.

 

Me: 15:45

Quote

Hi xxxx,

Thank you for your email. I am happy to accept your offer. I will ask the garage (Eden Tyres & Services, Rugby) if they are happy to invoice you (MSI Trade Centre Ltd) the sum of £323 directly for this work.

If the garage does not agree to this, are you happy for me to make the payment and send the invoice to you? You could then pay me back via an online bank transfer to my account (sort-code: xx-xx-xx  account:xxxxxxxx)?

Kind Regards,

xxxxxxx xxxxxx

 

MSI: 16:07

Quote

Hi xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes thats fine let me know what the garage say.

Regards

 

Me: 17:23

Quote

Hi xxxx,

I have spoken with the branch manager of Eden Tyres & Servicing, Rugby branch, xxxx xxxx and he says it would be easier for them if I pay for the repair, they would then provide me with an invoice which I can forward on to you.

I have the work booked for this Friday (15th of March), I will send you a copy of the invoice once the work has been completed.

xxxx can be contacted on xxxxxxxxxxx, the branch is open:
Monday to Friday : 8.30am to 5.30pm
Saturday : 8.30am to 12.30pm
Sunday: Closed.
Thanks again for your assistance in this matter.
Kind Regards,

xxxxxxx xxxxxx.

 

I've been keeping a polite and civil tone, I don't want to give them any reason to draw this out. I will post an update once I have one.

Edited by FabledFabia
removing phone number, remove bank account

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