HX/Gladstones claimform - < 5 mins stop - Shell Garage, Salterhebble, Halifax, HX2 0QE Salterhebble, Halifax

[dx100uk]

due Friday by 4pm

 

no too much

 

look at just about any other PCN claimform thread in this forum

 

use the 2 or 3 line std defence. 

[Mark 2019]

Ok cool, I was actually worried it was not enough

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

you should have been already self helping too

you've been here since march.

 

your major point will be being under the minimum 10 mins grace period I will guess.

 

 

[Mark 2019]

I think I have a huge dossier of evidence its just a case of knowing what to do when and I have already a draft of a full defence based on another claim I found on here that was defeated in the Bradford Court last year.

 

I received my initial letter in March from Gladstones which I responded to via their website as requested and hit them with a Subject Access request.

 

They responded and then I heard nothing from March until I returned from holiday early August (2 weeks ago) at which and the claim arrived 2 days after I went on holiday in July. I though they had given up.

 

If anything I am just a bit ahead of myself as was thinking I had to send my full defence in as Ive seen on other pages.

 

Thanks for all the help and guidance

 

 

[dx100uk]

For your witness statement if it gets that far

[Mark 2019]

Okay -  having read dozens and dozens of threads this is what I have so far and just trying to keep the response to the Particulars of Claim so nothing about the circumstances or issues such as Gladstone/IPC relationship, potential GDPR breach by Camera operative etc which I presume will more crucial when I get to court? 

 

I am the defendant in this matter and deny liability for the entirety of the claim. The particulars of the Claim disclose no cause of action against the Defendant on the following grounds:

1. The claimant HX Car Park Management Limited (HX) is not the land owner and strict proof is required that HX contract with the land owner includes the right to take legal action.

2. The claimant failed to display clear signs within the site that were capable of being read and/or form a contract as drivers can enter the area without seeing the sign due the lack of any signage at the entrance of the site. The signs and terms within the area are impossible to read from inside the car and would require the motorist to leave the vehicle putting them in immediate breach of said terms.

(i)The signs may also have been obstructed by cages from the retailer and therefore not visible around the area in question. Thus, the necessary elements of offer and acceptance to form a contract were not present.
(ii) The signage failed to meet the Independent Parking Committee (IPC) code of practice (Schedule 1). Therefore, no contract has been formed with the driver.
(iii) The signage in the car park is of a “forbidding” nature. There is no offer of parking or even stopping and so to claim that a contract exists is nonsense.

3. The Claimants own evidence shows that the vehicle was present for just 5 minutes. The IPC Code of Conduct states “drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so   they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.” I don’t believe there has ever been a successful claim against a driver for a period of less than 10 minutes. By pursuing this they are again in breach of the code.

 

I plan on filing my response this evening so does this seem an appropriate response?

[dx100uk]

No far too much...detail

 

2 or 3 simple short lines only like any pcn claimform threads here already

[Mark 2019]

Still struggling to come up with anything 2 or 3 lines and havent found a thread with anything that brief. Seen plenty where people have like me given too much....... So how about this - the site team seemed to be happy with something similar on another thread I will keep looking in the interim though for something more succinct

 

1. The Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number XXXXXXX on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

 

2. It is denied that any 'parking charges’ are owed and any debt is denied in its entirety because no keeper liability so no cause for action against the defendant. The claimant has failed to show locus standi so the defendant does not believe they have a right to bring an action against anyone.
 

3. Accordingly, it is denied that the driver breached any of the Claimant's purported contractual terms, whether express, implied, or by conduct as no enforceable contract offered at the time by claimant so no cause for action can have arisen.

 

4. The Claimant also stated in the Particulars of Claim that ‘the driver of the Vehicle agreed to pay the parking charge within 28 days of issue yet failed to do so’. However, the claimant has failed to provide evidence of that agreement.

5. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed, and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.

[Mark 2019]

I feel i should be saying more on the signage but is that more for any court appearance? In some threads its referenced in others not but does point 3 essentially cover that?

 

Thanks

 

[ericsbrother]

I really dont know where people dig up these relics, perhaps you could enlighten me at some time.

 

You need to put the main points across in plain english so something like

 

1.The claimant belongs to an Accredited Trade Associataion and agrees to abide by its code of conduct, which allows a grace period of 10 minutes for reasons spelt out in the BEAVIS decision that are binding upon the claimant. The defendants vehicle was there for less than this grace period so no breach has occurred and no cause for action exists.

 

2. In any case the signage at the site is so deficient that it cannot be said that a contract FOR PARKING was clearly offered to the driver at the time and it is denied that one was considered and accepted. the claimant has also failed to show they have the necessary permissions for their signs under the Town and Country Planning Axt 2007 so the defendant does not believe they have such permission and as this is a criminal offence is not possible to enter into a criminal compact with the claimant even if said signs were an offer of terms.

 

3. The claimant has not followed the protocols of the POFA to create a keeper liability and as the defendant denies being the driver at the time there is no cause for action against him in that capacity of keeper.

 

4.  the claimant has failed to show a cause for action and has failed to show any legal basis for the sum claimed so the defendant requests the claim is struck out under CPR 3.4.

 

makes easier and clearer reading

[Mark 2019]

I now have a reply to my CPR Request.

 

Ultimately they have not provided any of the information I requested i.e proof of contract between HX Car Park and the Landowner or the planning permission for signage. They have only sent the various notice to keeper letters and a A4 copy of their sign.

 

Interestingly they state "Anything not included was not referenced in our particulars or is not relevant to the matter at hand"

 

They then go on to make me a very generous offer of settling for £150 on a without prejudice basis..........obviously I guess I just ignore the offer and await for the cour invite? Is there any sense in me writing to them and offering to settle and avoid going to court if they pay me £xx for breach of GDPR? Ive seen a few threads on this but not sure if its ever been actually tested in court.

[honeybee13]

Hi. It sounds as if they don't have the document/s you want, see what the others think.

 

I'm not sure getting into letter tennis is going to help, it can make life more complicated.

 

HB

[Mrs O'Frog]

No point replying, but you can now add to your defence that they have refused to comply with your CPR 31.14 request to provide evidence of contract with landowner so you believe they have no locus standi and in your point 2 you can change it from "failed to show" to "refused to show" again mentioning your CPR 31.14 request.

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Interestingly they state "Anything not included was not referenced in our particulars or is not relevant to the matter at hand"

 

 

Correct.....you can't request documents not referred to within the claimants particulars, CPR 31.14 is a civil request.

 

31.14

(1) A party may inspect a document mentioned in –

(a) a statement of case;

(b) a witness statement;

(c) a witness summary; or

(d) an affidavit^(GL).

Andy

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Perhaps it means that what you asked for is not relevant since they are not taking you to Court. LOL. You rarely get them to answer that particular request because the parking companies do not have all the Laws, rules and regulations in place. That can only be good for you.

Regarding the signs they sent of the car park they aren't always in the same place in  the car park as on their photos. So you can use that to question all their WS 

[ericsbrother]

so they wont be producing a contract at court then eh?

you will make this point clearly in your WS and hammer the point home that they have failed to show any authority to be there so failed to show a cause for action.

 

It is then judge lottery as to whether a late submission or just a statement that "we do have one guv but it is secret" will be accepted or the whole thing gets booted outand their side get an earwigging for wasting the courts time

[Mark 2019]

Ok looks like we are going to court. Ive recieved a "Directions Questionnaire" (Small Claims Track).

 

Obviously self explanatory to fill out but I assume I dont agree to mediation? Will this be frowned upon? Obviously I have no intention of giving them a penny so unless mediation results in them witdrawing their claim I presume I tick no here?

[dx100uk]

from the court?

[brassnecked]

And do not agree to any "On The Papers" malarkey, that is a guaranteed default win for them, you need to be able to challenge any dodgy stuff they have claimed, eben the £60 unicorn food tax they are not supposed to add if chasing the keeper.

[Mark 2019]

Its a N180 Directions Questionnaire from the court. So essentially just saying where I wish the hearing to take place and any dates of unavailability. There is just a question at beginning asking if I agree to the case being referred to the small claims mediation service. Obviously I dont want to come across as unreasonable but obviously I'm not prepared to accept any other outcome than a withdrawl of their claim.

 

[dx100uk]

get reading up just about any PCNclaimform threads here

which you should be doing during 'downtimes'

 

no to mediation

1 wit you

the rest is obv.

 

3 copies

court 

gladdies [minus phone/email/sig]

your records

[ericsbrother]

not accepting mediation doesnt go against you, it is not applicable to many cases anyway and certainly not applicable to this one

[Mark 2019]

I now have a court date. xx March 2020.

I have already written my defence which I am 95% happy with.

Its based on a successful court victory for a defendant in Janury 2018 on the same site and the circumstances were 99% similar.

 

The additional points of evidence I have makes mine a stronger case as I see it. 

Im going to enjoy Christmas and then look to polish it off in the New year so hopefully you will be able to offer me some valued critique.

 

Just a couple of thoughts:

I have lots of photographic evidence from multiple site visits since the incident but wondered whether dashcam footage would be useful in defence as I'm guessing it will give the judge a better perspective of the "journey" as he may not be familiar with the site.

 

I am trying to find specific details of the case in January 2018 but am struggling.

I have however reached out to the defendant via a forum to see if they can share the details as surely this forms case history and precedent. BTW they were parked for 6 minutes, I was only 5.

 

Many thanks for all your help to date and have a great Christmas.

[dx100uk]

witness statement - you already filed your defence months ago.

[Mark 2019]

Letter from court is asking that I submit to the court and the other party no later than 14 days ahead of the hearing  a "witness statement?" I assume this will give more detail than the original defence I filed?

 

It states I must:

 

Start with name of the case and claim number

Full name and adress of witness

Set out witness evidence clearly in numbered paragraphs on numbered pages

End with this paragraph "I beleive that the facts stated in this witness statement are true."

be signed by the witness and dated