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    • Should this to be take into court with him or should he send something in earlier?
    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
    • These are the photos of the signs. At the entrance there is a 7h free sign. On some bays there is a permit sign.  Also their official website is misleading as it implies all parking is free.  I can't be certain of the exact parking bay I was in that day, and there was no PCN ticket on my car and no other evidence was provided.  parking sign 2.pdf
    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
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Hi all..... I just don't know what to do... received a summons today for non payment of Council Tax.

It's in both mine and my husband's name and although we live together we also live quite separately, and don't share a bedroom or anything ... we have separate finances, but, on account that I only get a State pension of £306 a month, he pays most of the bills.

He has a State Pension, a small private pension and he works part time... he gets about £2k a month.

Years ago, we had a joint bank account, and I made sure the bills were paid on time... but now I don't even have access to his account so don't know what's been paid or what hasn't until the (unpaid) bills drop through the letterbox.

Anyway, as I said, we are jointly responsible for the council tax on our rented property, and have been summonsed to appear at court as he apparently didn't pay the last 2 installments.

He doesn't seem to worry about such things but I am at my wits end and suffer from anxiety... I don't want to be someone who is being chased for money all the time.

Do I have any defence at court if I state that I am unable to pay? It's not my fault that I receive such a small pension... I had to take part time jobs years ago so that I could look after my children. I have no other money or savings... I don't see what I can do to avoid a criminal record.

I hope someone can help, please...

 

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Its simply a liability order

you dont need to defend nor attend

get it sorted with the council before they send bailiffs

but even if they do..they have no right of forced entry

read a few ctax threads on cag..youll soon get the idea

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thread moved to the appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Regards

Andy

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Quote

Do I have any defence at court if I state that I am unable to pay?

No - the simple question that the court considers is whether or not the money has been correctly demanded, the reason why it hasn't been paid is immaterial to the court.

Quote

I don't see what I can do to avoid a criminal record.

Although dealt with by the Magistrates' court it is a civil case not a criminal case.

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tnx SS missed the bit about criminal..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No need to worry about a criminal record, I would ring up and try to sort it out with the council.

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9 hours ago, Dookist said:

Hmmm... I thought non payment of tax was criminal... my mistake!

It's because it's one of the few civil cases still dealt with in the Magistrates' court- from the Magistrates side it's dealt with under Part2 of the MCA 1980 (Civil Jurisdiction & Procedure). Council Tax is a strange amalgam of civil law with some aspects more akin to criminal law thrown in (i.e jail for non-payment). As an aside the fact it's civil has caused major issues in the past in respect of disputing decisions of the court as s142 of the MCA 1980 (power to re-open cases) was deemed to be only applicable to magistrate's criminal cases - it was eventually ruled that the courts have a common law power to re-open a case if needed irrespective of their being no statutory power.

 

 

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6 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

It's because it's one of the few civil cases still dealt with in the Magistrates' court- from the Magistrates side it's dealt with under Part2 of the MCA 1980 (Civil Jurisdiction & Procedure). Council Tax is a strange amalgam of civil law with some aspects more akin to criminal law thrown in (i.e jail for non-payment). As an aside the fact it's civil has caused major issues in the past in respect of disputing decisions of the court as s142 of the MCA 1980 (power to re-open cases) was deemed to be only applicable to magistrate's criminal cases - it was eventually ruled that the courts have a common law power to re-open a case if needed irrespective of their being no statutory power.

 

Now I'm very confused... so you can still go to jail for non payment, but imprisonment doesn't result in a criminal record?

Is it the same for the TV licence... that's a tax, too, isn't it?

 

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11 hours ago, London1971 said:

No need to worry about a criminal record, I would ring up and try to sort it out with the council.

Will do... I think he is just confused... when I was in charge of our finances many years ago, everything was paid by Direct Debit... but he refuses to do this, so it gets overlooked all the time... it's not as if they send a reminder or anything...

If only he would agree to a joint bank account and let me pay the bills, we wouldn't have all this stress... It really does make me ill and causes anxiety...

I definitely don't want to go to court...

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You will not go to jail for non payment, end of story.

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It is important that you get in touch with the council before Bailiffs are instructed, as the bailiff fees can inflate the debt sometimes exponentially. The next correspondence you receive will usually be from them. This will include their first stage enforcement fee of £75.

An ideal plan would be to negotiate a small sum to repay the LO together with ongoing payments of the current liabilities. I am afraid you are going to have to tackle your husband and remind him that this is a priority debt, even if the matter does not progress to committal.  

Edited by Dodgeball
spell

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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On 3/2/2019 at 6:06 PM, Dookist said:

It's because it's one of the few civil cases still dealt with in the Magistrates' court- from the Magistrates side it's dealt with under Part2 of the MCA 1980 (Civil Jurisdiction & Procedure). Council Tax is a strange amalgam of civil law with some aspects more akin to criminal law thrown in (i.e jail for non-payment). As an aside the fact it's civil has caused major issues in the past in respect of disputing decisions of the court as s142 of the MCA 1980 (power to re-open cases) was deemed to be only applicable to magistrate's criminal cases - it was eventually ruled that the courts have a common law power to re-open a case if needed irrespective of their being no statutory power.

 

Now I'm very confused... so you can still go to jail for non payment, but imprisonment doesn't result in a criminal record?

 

One of the odd features that further confuses people - you can be jailed for an offence that isn't actually a criminal offence and doesn't give a criminal record.  It's because council tax has it's own odd amalgam of legislation.

Quote

Is it the same for the TV licence... that's a tax, too, isn't it?

TV Licence evasion is specifically legislated for as a criminal offence.

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An important point is that you cannot be committed for having insufficient funds and therefore being unable to pay. It must be that the debtor had the funds, but decided not to pay, or purposefully disregarded the courts order to pay.

The court must therefore conduct investigations into the debtors resources before any sentence can be passed. We must support the allusion that no one in this country can be incarcerated for being poor.

Edited by Dodgeball
illusion or allusion could be either i siuppose

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Which is why only 62 people went to prison for Council tax non payment in 2016/2017. Out of all the hundreds of thousands of people in arrears.

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Conviction for non-payment requires that culpable neglect or wilful refusal be found. In real terms the OP doesn't get anywhere near meeting that with a competent bench.

 

In April 16 to July 17 there were 95 warrants of commitment issued but there had been 134 suspended orders made against those 95 people first - so some had at least 2 suspended orders. The number of people convicted and who are never jailed will be a good bit higher. Many councils are very reluctant to use committal, even against debtors owing tens of thousands of pounds. If councils decided to make full use of committal applications the number of convictions would rocket.

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Thank you very much for the posts... the law surrounding council tax arrears is quite complicated.... we only owe 3 months and will scrape together enough money to pay...

A few months ago, we were told by DWP that we were entitled to a discount on Council Tax and Housing Benefit as our income fell below that needed to cover essentials... we are both 66 and only had our pensions...but my husband, who has never missed a day's work in his life, would not agree to accepting benefits, and went out and got a part time job, so I doubt we are entitled to anything now.

Not sure if the fact that we were entitled to a discount, but chose to live on our savings, (even though we had less than £5k saved), would cut it at court, though...

We will be sofa surfing in 3 weeks time as we can no longer afford to pay the rent and have given notice.

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What help options have you explored in terms of your housing situation?

CAB?

Shelter?

Contact your local Councillor about the council tax in light of your housing situation, you might be on the priority housing list.  There must be options? Other than 2 people who have worked their whole lives, sofa surfing.

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On 3/3/2019 at 10:20 PM, Dodgeball said:

An important point is that you cannot be committed for having insufficient funds and therefore being unable to pay. It must be that the debtor had the funds, but decided not to pay, or purposefully disregarded the courts order to pay.

The court must therefore conduct investigations into the debtors resources before any sentence can be passed. We must support the allusion that no one in this country can be incarcerated for being poor.

Ahhh... well, they could look at the finances but wouldn't find any money...

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1 hour ago, London1971 said:

What help options have you explored in terms of your housing situation?

CAB?

Shelter?

Contact your local Councillor about the council tax in light of your housing situation, you might be on the priority housing list.  There must be options? Other than 2 people who have worked their whole lives, sofa surfing.

 

I contacted the DWP and they sent me a form to fill in... they said we were entitled to a large discount for rent and council tax... the problem is my husband who chose to get a job instead of signing the form... we could have stayed here in our rented home, but he has made us homeless by refusing benefits... there's nothing I can do now, unfortunately. We are unlikely to be rehoused by the council because they will say we have made ourselves homeless... I'm just sick with worry...

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