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w4ter_Boy

Annual Leave - USE it or LOSE it!

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Hi,

Just after some advice and opinion.

 

My better half's holiday year runs out at the end of March 19 and her employer operates a "use it or lose it" policy.

 

She has asked for some time off, and they have said that they cannot facilitate her absence due to low staff levels along with others being on leave.

 

They have also informed her that as she cannot use it, she will ultimately lose it.

 

 

Is this correct and will she have no option but to lose out on leave entitlement, even though its the employer preventing her from using the holiday entitlement?

 

Most years she loses between between 5-10 days leave, 1. due to her not being a huge holiday taker and 2. due to the fact that whenever she wants time off, its rarely approved or she is given less days than requested.

 

I would just like to know where she stands, as I feel she always draws the short straw and I feel that they are not being entirely fair in denying the leave, also they could be doing it in order to make it lapse.

 

 

Many thanks to all who offer comments.

 

Regards,

W4ter_Boy

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Then use it.

Holiday pay is part of her pay and she is entitled to it, either in time off or money.

If she earnt £15/hour and the employer said I'm taking £1.00/hour back you'd hit the roof.

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I see a forum regular is hovering so I won't say too much.

 

My OH's company has a use it or lose it policy but if he's unable to take leave when he wants, he's able to negotiate.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Whether the "days lost" is legal deends on her total entitlement and if it is over statutory requirements

 

However, booking a LOT of leave with 4 weeks to go in the holiday year, seems like it's not going to be all that helpful.

 

How much has she asked for and when did she ask?

 

What is her leave entitlement, is she full time or part time, and how much has she taken? (including bank holidays)

 

I'd be inclined to get her all booked in as soon as the calender is published...


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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booking a LOT of leave with 4 weeks to go in the holiday year, seems like it's not going to be all that helpful....

 

Hi Emmzzi,

She actually requested it a couple of weeks ago (6-7 weeks before).

 

She has the standard 28 inc. bank holidays. and i think she has 6 days spare.

 

They wont even let her take 1 day and I just wanted to know if she should be shouting at the top of her voice and stomping her feet, or simply taking it as a life lesson and as mentioned, booking it all up as early as possible in future.

 

 

I just get annoyed, as she works hard and is a giver not a taker when it comes to work, she frequently stays late and does not log her overtime, as the overtime policy is TOIL and she says "I struggle to use my basic entitlement, never mind TOIL".

 

Many thanks again.

 

WB

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I think as opposed to asking for set days she should ask her employer to confirm when she can take them - she’s at the legal minimum so she is allowed all of them!

 

However I suspect you may run into the problem of how willing she is to rock the boat? You can’t force her to do what you would do....


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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I'm afraid I'd agree. She certainly is entitled to take a tougher stance on this, but whether she wants to or not must be for her to decide. She is somewhat shooting herself in the foot with (1) though- whilst I don't have much sympathy for the employer here, they are not legally obliged to make someone pay attention to what holiday they haven't taken. But employees must. She should be more careful what she has taken and not taken, and not leave things until the end of the year - especially if she knows the employer will be making it difficult.

 

What does she want to happen here? Because right now, rightly or wrongly, I'm mostly getting what you would like to happen, but she's the one who'll have to carry it out.

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You are correct, its not about what I want.

 

However, I am looking to influence her based on what she is legally entitled to. As at the moment she is comfortable in believing that she has no right to it, because her boss has said so.

 

If I can advise her that she is actually legally entitled to the full 28 days, then she just may feel more confident in approaching them.

 

Ultimately it is her decision, but at least I would have done my part in supporting and assisting her.

 

What is the legal stance, or is it all down to the black and white text of contracts?

 

 

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

 

WB

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You are correct, its not about what I want.

 

However, I am looking to influence her based on what she is legally entitled to. As at the moment she is comfortable in believing that she has no right to it, because her boss has said so.

 

If I can advise her that she is actually legally entitled to the full 28 days, then she just may feel more confident in approaching them.

 

Ultimately it is her decision, but at least I would have done my part in supporting and assisting her.

 

What is the legal stance, or is it all down to the black and white text of contracts?

 

 

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

 

WB

 

On this one it is the law. Which makes it "easier". She is entitled to take 28 days statutory leave, full stop; and the employer cannot deny that right. They * may*, with agreement on both sides, permit anything over 20 days to carry over. Anything above 28 days and that's contractual, so not applicable in this situation.

 

However, regrettably "the law" is not often as useful as you'd think. Firstly because "the law" isn't what does the the "standing up to the employer ", and "the law" isn't what takes the consequences. Especially if she has less than two years employment, and can be dismissed for any reason they like - she'll never prove it was for asserting a statutory right. Secondly because there are lots of ways that an employer can "get even", not least of which is for them to dictate exactly what leave you will take and when in the future. So they could literally tell you that your entire 28 are to be taken in January. Or that you can have 28 Mondays! Be cautious because employers have total freedom to dictate exactly when employees can and can't take leave. That's also the law!

 

The problem we have here is that we don't know the employer, nor the employee. Some employers would never be that petty. Others can make a two year old having a tantrum look reasonable. Some employees can maintain a reasonable and balanced view. Others might spend six hours in tears, or two hours hurling insults at 200 decibels!

 

So that means two things. One - whatever, she had to be comfortable with the approach AND the potential outcome. Two - it's a hell of a lot easier to have some other person do it for you, and that other person is known as union rep! I know that this is important to you, and annoying/ important to her, but this is small potatoes for a union rep. Union reps are elected to take the flak, and are pretty good at it usually. Think about that. Also think about, if something relatively insignificant like this is such hard work, what's she going to do when it's something big and hard work?!!

 

Unions aren't 100% protection even when you are in the right. That's because we are constrained by the law as well. What "isn't right" or "isn't fair" isn't the same thing as "isn't legal" - a distinction many people fail to grasp. But it's better than no protection. And there are other benefits too. Think about it. Nobody thinks there'll ever be a next time. Nobody thinks they'll have problems because they'll never do anything wrong. Unfortunately, "they" are often wrong!

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