Provident IRL - Deceased Relative***Resolved***

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Hi all,

 

This time last year my gran passed away.

We have discovered this week after finally clearing out everything in the premises (extreme hoarder) that she was a customer of that lovely company we know as Provident.

 

From the mountains of paper work I've looked through, I have found 23 legible statements first one with a date of March 2008 and last one December 2014 - The oldest of the paperwork (extremely water-damaged) have the provident logo's and date Nov 1999.

We have counted every one of these and there's 121 (inc the 23 legible) - which works out at roughly 3-4 loans per year from '99! (statements seem to be 6mths each)

 

From the 23 I can read the total value paid back £32k - they average approx £800 each one & have an APR 245% (or around that mark).

(Agreements dated before 2013 £20k was paid back) and each time one was taken out there was a repayment within 14days.

 

My Gran, left no will - and my mom acted as executioner(?) though nothing official (except for Hospital letters stating her as N.O.K).

She was in receipt of disability / benefits/ pension for years - I'm 40 and I remember going to the post office with her to cash her giro when I was alot younger.. She never held a bank account - did'nt believe in them. the only time she had an account of some sort was when the DWP started to pay into a post office account.

 

I'm aware that Provident are one of the many being investigated for IRL & I've seen other threads where people have refunded PPI on behalf of a deceased relative.

 

My question are - and might seem stupid considering the length of time I've been on here (and successes I've had)

1) Where do I start - do I send a GDPR / SAR request to Provident - (is there any specific wording/template for a deceased relative).

2) Provident will probably only hold 6yrs of info, but what about the year's prior to 2013 where I have statements?

3) Is there a specific IRL template (for a deceased relative)

4) We only have a the death cert. no other paperwork - will this suffice or are we unable to go after them for IRL?

 

It has come as a great shock to see these, and to know that she'd had multiple loans running at the same time with benefit as only source of income. What made it worse is she said she was putting money away for her funeral and family - but my mother had to take out a loan (with a reputable bank) to pay for all the funeral costs & money owed to DWP in over payments.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edited February 18, 2019 by ads_uk

[honeybee13]

Hi. I'm sorry to hear about your gran. It's upsetting to find out that family have been preyed upon by expensive lenders, we've had this in our family too.

 

I think you mean executor rather than executioner. Assuming there was a will, otherwise it's administrator.

 

I'm not sure about sending an SAR for a deceased relative, there's another current thread here about that.

 

There's also a newish thread by reallymadwoman about the DWP claiming money owed by a deceased relative. I don't want to build up hopes but it's possible that the debt ceased when your gran died. It's worth looking into at least.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

Isnt predictive text wonderful...

 

Ads i think with the evidence you already have you have some serious weaponry there to do provi some serious damage atleast but not limited too - Very bad publicity.

 

There are no special templates nor are they needed

Just inc proof you are an admin with an sar or write as one.

[Mr.P]

I think you mean executor rather than executioner. Assuming there was a will, otherwise it's administrator.

 

The status of executor or administrator would only be granted after a probate application has been made. If the estate is worth less than £5,000, there is no court fees to pay. For further information, see: https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance

 

I have my doubts that Provident (or any other body) would respond without a letter of administration, so it may well be worth applying for probate.

[dx100uk]

IMHO that might well be a very good idea

 

 

this case could go a long way.

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Thanks for your prompt replies.

Probate was never applied for - going through the link in the above, the Inheritance Tax was never done (apparently) she live in rented (council) accomodation and had nothing so I would definitely say it's less than £5k

 

We are now trying to find the Will, so we can apply for Probate/letter of administration.

If we can not find the Will does it cause issues for obtaining the Letter of Administration?

 

We have found another 2 statements for 2007 both separate loans of £1.5k each -- it's mind blowing how they've took advantage of her.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

If there's a valid will you apply for probate and become executor/s. If not, it's Letters of Administration and you're administrator/s/

 

HB

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Response back from provident:

Thank you for your email, requesting a Data Subject Access Request which relates to your late mother’s account with Provident Personal Credit.

We are sorry to hear of the passing of XXXXXX, please accept our condolences at this difficult time.

We have reviewed and considered your request and on this occasion we have been unable to provide the information that has been requested, as Data Subject Access Requests are only available to be made for living individuals as outlined in the Data Protection Legislation.

Is there anything I can go back with to request this OR should I just stick in the IRL claim based on the information I have got?

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After their refusal to supply further information, I submitted the a letter in regards to IRL on my mother's behalf.

They have today acknowledged this, however as pointed out earlier by Mr.P they are requesting grant of probate or letter of administration.

 

Unfortunately, it's now been discovered that another family member has the will and are refusing to part with it as "they do not want to drag [my nan] her name down".

 

When informed as to why we require it ' I've spoken to the council worker [the relative has had help recently finding accomodation and filling in forms] and they say that their solicitors can deal with it all"

 

So I think we are now screwed with any claim and provident are wiping the sweat away.

If only you can pick your family.

[dx100uk]

spoken?

not by phone I hope?

 

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Yep.

This person is one of the named beneficiary of my nans estate - after she died they had help from a council worker to complete forms for accommodation, benefits and employment etc (my nan used to help him) - apparently this council worker stated to get all the information as they have their own solicitors that can assist - I do think they are under impression it's PPI..

 

Without the will we can not do anything, they also won't be happy that you have to send the will off to get Probate..

[Mr.P]

They do not get a choice in the matter. They can always get the solicitor to provide a certified copy of the will before sending the original off with the probate application.

 

Do you know who the executor is who has been named in the will ?

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I am unsure, but my mother handled funeral and I think she said was a witness to the will.

(No bank account, credit cards to close so this was never required before)

 

Knowing what they are like I can understand that they don't want to part with the will, as it's got my nans details and handwriting (he's abit possessive when it comes to these things)

[BankFodder]

open

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Update.

Probate has been applied for (start of August) been told that can take upto 3mths.

 

Noticed on an other site that Provident seem to sit on these types of issues for quite sometime.

If provident decide not to reimburse, is there a time limit for FOS to investigate/complete investigation?

 

And can someone point me in direction of working out the 8% interest.

For the loans I know about the charges between 2008 and 2014 come to roughly £15k

[dx100uk]

 

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Thank you

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Hi,
I am probably running before I can walk (as nothing has been sent to Provident yet - still waiting on the Probate people)
Out of the four spreadsheets I think it's StatIntSheet v101.xls I require.

Claim From would be the original loan date, but what would the Claim To be.. would it be the end date of each loan?
Also as it's a loan, the Charge was up front do I put the full value or break it down into the weekly payments per agreement?
ie the first loan was issued 15/03/2008 and length 56wks  
Amount of Credit: £800
Charge for Credit: £544

Total: £1,344

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Letter Of Administration received today (sitting on the door mat when we just came in)

Now I suppose the fun and games will commence.

Going to send off a revised Complaint of Irresponsible Lending and request that Details/history of the account is provided asap.

 

I do have a feeling that they won't send me through statements of Account and I'm sure that there is plenty more loans than the ones we've already found

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Update...

Extremely annoyed.
I've contacted Provident regularly requesting an update as to the complaint and when I can expect to receive the copy of the information - response of we have 56days blah blah..

Today I've received and email form them (standard response?):

Quote

We are sorry that we have been unable to resolve your complaint at this time.
We can assure you that this matter is still under investigation and is receiving our urgent attention. We expect to be able to provide you with a full response in due course.
If we require any further information or you feel you have any supporting information to help resolve your complaint we will contact you or please contact us using the details below.
We would like to apologise for the delay and appreciate your ongoing patience.
In view of this and in line with our complaints procedure. You have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge, but you must do so within six months of the date of this email. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.

 

Now I've got to attempt to submit with the Fos - on other platforms I can see:
FOS. contacts Prov. with a specific reply date.
Prov miss this - FOS extend it 6wks.
Prov fail to respond.
FOS uphold complaints
Prov. Rejects the FOS action.
Another 3-12mths wait for it to be assigned to Ombudsman.
Ombudsman upholds after another 6mths
Prov take 2mths to send refund...

Do you know if there is any way to speed up the process / force Prov's hand at sending the information through & dealing with the complaint.  

Only information I have to hand is a Post Office account statement showing the benefit paying in - there is no bank account, unable to obtain Credit Report(s) and I only have the account number and agreement numbers for the 23 loans (14k charges for Credit) .

Will this information be enough for FoS,
What will happen to the information that I've requested but failed to be provided - will this be taken into account as there should be loans before 2008 & after 2014?

[dx100uk]

why not ring the FOS and enquire ??

they can force disclosure and have ofcourse fined provident several times already regarding customer data and the pathetic way some customers have been treated by their doorstep loaners in the past.

 

dx

 

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little update.
Submitted complaint to FOS 27th Nov
Today have emailed saying it in a queue to be assigned to an adjudicator and wont be until the new year just to the sheer volume of complaints that they have had in response to Provident & irresponsible lending.
Provident still ignore any requests for update to the complaint / sending full account details through.

On other sites I can see claims that Provident are now starting to agree/uphold complaints that have gone through FOS following their Test Cases(?)
Most are being upheld from 1 May 2007 due to the change in the Law?

If we are successful with the claim can some tell me the is the Tax from the 8% recoverable?
With it being a person who has passed - they of course pay no tax.
My mother (on benefits) it the claimant on behalf of Nan - she does not pay tax.

I only ask as by my calculations it will be >15k of Interest/charges that could be refunded.
 

[dx100uk]

yes you need to ensure they don't hold the 20% of the 8%.

 

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Update:

3rd Jan, I called FOS for an update.

They still hadn't assigned the case to anyone, but as told them that we are trying to close the estate she would check to see if they could do anything.

6th Jan received an email stating that due to the circumstances the "complaint prioritised. What this means is that the complaint will be taken out of the casework queue and will be dealt with separately. "

They also sent a further email 2hrs later saying they have requested the file from the business.

20th Jan I rang to see what was happening as I had not received any communication. They said they were still awaiting the business to send the file through. 

The person I spoke to said once she's finished with the call, she would chase them up. 20mins later I received an email stating she had rung them and they said the file will be with FOS by 31st Jan.

This never materialised.

I rang again 3rd Feb, again FOS said they'd chase and an hour later received a call from FOS confirming that they will send the file to them by 7th Feb.

Contacted FOS today, again nothing sent through. They said all they can do is keep chasing them. Again they rang me back to tell me "provident are doing their best to provide the information, but they have a high volume of queries".

 

It kind of worries me that the FOS can be fobbed off like this -- this is similar to my Wonga claim, they kept fobbing them off and then boom Administration.

 

Has anyone come across this before with the FOS, is there anything that can be done to lean on both FOS/provident.

I have already submitted statements & payment books as stated earlier only missing information is prior to 2008 and 2015 to 2018.

Can't FOS go off this information or do they have to keep chasing and waiting?

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On a high today.
FOS adjudicator has been in touch and have upheld my case.

 

From the 30 loans Provident had given them details of, Loan numbers 6 to 30 should have charges + Stat.Interest from the original date payments were made to the date of settlement.

It's roughly £15k of Charges, and I've worked out the 8% from settlement of each loan to today, which comes to £8,400.
 

So less the VAT (8400*20% = £1680) its about 21k
 

Now FOS have given them a date of 25th March to reply. Some other sites a reporting that Prov are contacting people to negotiate and if refused they reject the Adjudicators decision.

 

Waiting game never ends