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ecarsuk/RS Cars - Advice on small claims on faulty vehicle

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Hi,

 

Ive read a few of the posts on the forum before registering and after seeing the sound advice given out I was hoping I could just pinch some knowledge off whoever maybe helpful enough to assist my situation.

 

So I’m submitting my small claims court document online tomorrow, it’s all filled out ready to go but I wanted some advice on what I can claim for and to what amounts.

 

I’ll try to keep this brief. I purchased a car in October for £2000. The car had high mileage at 130k but seemed a good vehicle for me to get to work and back. It had a full service history, lots of receipts and drove fine so was happy to transfer the cash. The very following day on way to work it went into limp mode but on restart it would come out of it, I contacted the dealer who said I could bring it in and he would sort it. I took the car to him and the faults were cleared from the diagnostics and he said hopefully that will be the end of that and sent me on my way (I know, he fobbed me off).

 

A full month later, whilst driving, the car made an almighty sound and grounded to a halt. Again the garage said to send it down and he would sort it. I got it sent to him and had very poor contact from him for the next week. When he eventually told me the issue that the cambelt had snapped, his previous helpful self went as well. Cue a month of going back and forth, him wanting me to pay money towards the fix and me taking advice from citizens advice giving him all the options I was entitled to. He refused all options and when I told him I was seeking legal advice, he totally shut down and asked for it all in writing to which I duly obliged.

 

So tomorrow is 28 days since I sent my letter to him advising him that I was taking him to small claims and I haven’t received anything at all from him. He has my car, my money and I’ve offered him every option but he’s completely refused.

 

My question is, I have put in the price of the car at £2000 and the towing price at £70 but in the meantime he created hell for me without my vehicle, should I be claiming for more? The main thing is I’ve had to go and finance another vehicle, I’ve had to keep paying the tax and insurance as the car is parked outside his garage. Also the amount of personal things like hospital appointments, school runs etc I had to re arrange in that time was a right pain in the backside. I don’t want to put too much in, in all honesty if I got my money back I’d be over the moon but I feel like I should be entitled to more after how he’s handled this and what I’ve had to deal with.

 

Sorry for such a long message and thanks in advance to anyone who chooses to help.

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Firstly, I suggest that you hold off issuing the claim until we have seen the claim form.

 

Post the claim here in PDF format if you can.

 

Yes, you should certainly claim for ancillary losses.

 

Please usually start the losses which you have in mind and we will tell you whether the areas of loss are reasonable and whether the amount you are claiming for them are reasonable.

 

You waited this long – it won't hurt you to wait a couple days to try and get it right.


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Also, you say that the car is on the street so you are able to see it easily. If you haven't done so already I suggest you go and take photographs of it – as many as possible of the inside as well as the outside so that you have a record of the condition of the car is in. You never know what can happen when one upsets people!

 

Which garage you dealing with?


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I'd probably claim for the vehicle and any expenses incurred to yourself (that you can provide evidence of), let the court decide whether any other costs are due for unreasonable behaviour and so on, it's called the "small claims court" for a reason, parties are expected to keep costs at a minimum.

 

As far as I'm aware, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 allows a dealership one chance at repair after the initial 30 days from purchase are up, if this fails, then they're obligated to provide a refund for the vehicle (minus a small amount for any usage) should you wish to reject the vehicle, which you should give notice in writing to the dealership seeking a refund as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

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Also, you say that the car is on the street so you are able to see it easily. If you haven't done so already I suggest you go and take photographs of it – as many as possible of the inside as well as the outside so that you have a record of the condition of the car is in. You never know what can happen when one upsets people!

 

Which garage you dealing with?

 

Thanks for the reply. It's currently in his possession outside his garage so as far as I'm concerned he is accepting responsibility for the vehicle, would this be correct? It's down with him since I had it transported in order for him to fix it but then things went downhill when he found out the cam belt had snapped. I have the company I used to transport the car as a witness for this.

 

As far as waiting to get the claim right, I completely agree with you and as you said I've waited long enough it wouldn't hurt to leave it a couple of days for sure. With regards the claim, I'm currently at the last stage where I have to post a timeline of all the events, is this the part you want me to post when completed? Can I edit it once I have completed it?

 

Losses I've incurred are the vehicle £2000, transport of vehicle £70, tax and insurance the last 2 months whilst I've been unable to use the vehicle, fuel taking the car to the garage?

 

Are they all reasonable? Plus I've since financed a new car which I wouldn't of had to if he carried out the repair or refunded me and I've also had to rearrange personal doctor appointments, arrange help to pickup children from school and childcare for my youngest but I don't know how to put a value on these things?

 

I'd probably claim for the vehicle and any expenses incurred to yourself (that you can provide evidence of), let the court decide whether any other costs are due for unreasonable behaviour and so on, it's called the "small claims court" for a reason, parties are expected to keep costs at a minimum.

 

As far as I'm aware, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 allows a dealership one chance at repair after the initial 30 days from purchase are up, if this fails, then they're obligated to provide a refund for the vehicle (minus a small amount for any usage) should you wish to reject the vehicle, which you should give notice in writing to the dealership seeking a refund as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

I've offered him multiple chances to fix it, refund, negotiated refund, replace vehicle and I've clearly stated I would accept any of these, I've got it all in text as well. I've also given him the 28 days in writing since he shut communication down and I've received no reply.

 

At this point I have now got a new vehicle so a refund would be the most appropriate outcome for me but I'd take what I can to be honest even if it means getting my repaired vehicle and selling it on which would be a pain.

 

I have not stated in my claim to reject the vehicle, is this something I have to put in there? I thought if I won the case the judge would tell me what I'm entitled to?

 

Also, you say that the car is on the street so you are able to see it easily. If you haven't done so already I suggest you go and take photographs of it – as many as possible of the inside as well as the outside so that you have a record of the condition of the car is in. You never know what can happen when one upsets people!

 

Which garage you dealing with?

 

Sorry missed the last part. Garage is ecarsuk ltd.

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Claiming for fuel seems reasonable if you have receipts, why should they benefit from receiving a car with more fuel in it?

 

I think with the small claims court you'd be hard pressed to claim for missed appointments and rescheduling stuff, that's just from my experience with being through the court process, although it's worth bringing this up at a hearing if successful, claiming for insurance and other related vehicle expenses is worth claiming for, if a judge decides against it, they'll exclude those items from your claim, so there's no harm in trying.

 

Yes, if you're rejecting the car on the basis it's faulty and the dealer has attempted a repair or failed to undertake a repair, you should give notice in writing to the dealership that you are rejecting the vehicle with a request that they pay a refund for the vehicle, when they fail or refuse to pay, generally it's at this point when you issue a letter before claim affording them 14 days to pay, when they fail, you then issue a claim against them, that's the process I'd use.

 

A letter before claim must include all the facts of the case, why the money is due, how you've arrived at the amount you're requesting, and explaining that failure to pay will lead to a claim being issued.

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I've sent the letter before claim 28 days ago, in there I stated all the facts like you said, I stated how we'd got to this point with me offering multiple solutions and him not carrying out any and I also stated I would still be willing to come to settle on the solutions I stated. That was 28 days ago and now I'm ready to proceed with the claim. I did not state my right to a refund I chose to be more flexible as I thought the judge may see I've tried absolutely everything with this garage and received nothing.

 

Thanks for the advice on what to claim on, very helpful.

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Please will you post up the letter of claim that you sent him.

 

I'm not sure that the long-term right to reject needs to be asserted – but it would certainly have been sensible to tell him that you were demanding a refund/replacement in view of the failed repair. It seems that you may not have done this – and I'm not altogether certain why.

 

Also, I don't really understand why you gave him 28 days notice when 14 days is more than sufficient – and you seem to be dealing with somebody who doesn't display any intention of respecting your consumer rights. Mind you, if I were dealing with somebody who doesn't seem to understand that an consumer rights, I might be tempted to deal with them in a similar way.

 

Please post up your letter of claim – and also whatever it is you have drafted so far in respect of your particulars of claim.

 

It certainly doesn't need to be detailed. But we may advise you to send another letter of claim to make it clear what you are after and what it is you intend to sue for. To send them a letter of claim setting out one demand and then to file a claim demanding something else doesn't really satisfy the pre-action protocol, in my view.

 

As for waiting for the judge to make suggestions to you, I'm afraid doesn't work that way and if you had come here earlier we would have told you this.

Edited by BankFodder
Because I made a silly mistake and didn't read somebody's post correctly. – Apologies.

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Thanks for the reply although it seems slightly harsh. I have not been here since 2013, it seems you may have me confused with mch1991 who’s been replying to my posts giving helpful advice. I only joined last night and yes I am a novice with regards to consumer advice you are not wrong there, it’s not a situation I have found myself in before.

 

I’ve taken all steps with the advice of citizens advice and that’s exactly the process they told to me take, that’s my reasonings however wrong that maybe. They also advised I leave it as long reasonably possible for him to fix the vehicle, I asked what’s a reasonable amount of time and was given 28 days is the average but a reasonable amount of time differs between each case.

 

I thought taking that advice and giving him 28 days to fix the car I was giving myself a better case by allowing him plenty of time to come to a resolution. Then speaking to citizens advice they told me if that time passes with no reply then the next step is to send a letter before court action which is now where I am at.

 

Leading on from that I was told only asking for a refund may limit my case which led me to offer him every option which they told me which was a full refund, a repair, a negotiated refund, a car of similar value or a take the car back at reduced cost. He still refused.

 

With regards to him seeing me as an easy target, that’s possible but I really don’t believe that to be the case. His messages at the end started getting personal before he shut down contact which I thought was a rather naive way to deal with things on his end knowing this could go to court. He doesn’t believe I will carry this out but I fully intend on doing so.

 

I shall post the letter shortly and hopefully you can give me some solid advice on where to go next, if it means me posting another letter to get it right then that’s absolutely fine.

 

Thanks for the advice though, it’s much appreciated.

 

This this is my brief explanation of the claim I’m submitting online before I do the timeline of events. Hope you can access, limited to using my phone/iPad at the moment.

 

 

 

I purchased a Volkswagen Golf from ecarsuk at the end of November….pdf

 

Here is the letter I sent him, I’ve tried to blank out my address and vehicle reg only.

 

F1195F74-BEEE-43AC-91FD-6658C1CC6F80.pdf

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Yup you're right. I confused you and so you are right to be annoyed with me. I apologise. I should take more care when reading these posts.


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Okay, I think it will be reasonable to send another letter of claim giving 14 days without further notice.

 

I would suggest

 

further to my letter of the XXX date I'm writing to clarify that if you oblige me to take court action, I will be asserting my right to reject the vehicle and in this case insisting on a refund.

 

You should be aware that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if a vehicle which you sell me develops a defect within the first six months you and you attempt a repair and that repair fails, then I am entitled to reject the vehicle and insist on a refund.

 

Because I had not made this clear in my previous correspondence, I'm now give you a further 14 days to consider your position. To be clear, I'm consider that my losses are £XX £XX £XX (list your losses).

 

If you do not comply with your obligations under the law then I shall be bringing an action in the County Court and without any further notice.

 

I suggest that your particulars of claim are much shorter.

 

by a contract dated XXX date, the defendant motorcar dealer agreed to sell me a second hand XX make of vehicle , registration number XXX for £xxx

 

The vehicle developed a fault on XXX date. The vehicle was returned to the defendant for a repair but the repair has subsequently failed.

I have asserted my right to reject the vehicle and demand a refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 but the defendant has refused.

 

I'm claiming my losses – itemise losses plus interest

 

Does that work?


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That’s great, thanks very much and no need to apologise I appreciate your help.

 

I shall get to this and send another letter today giving him his 14 days notice. I shall rewrite my claim as suggested and save for 2 weeks time.

 

If I have any update in the meantime, I will post it here.

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Post up your drafted particulars of claim here before you click it off


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Post up your drafted particulars of claim here before you click it off

 

Here it is, copy and pasted yours and added what needed to be. Deleted all the old one. Also removed reg. Does this look ok?

 

By a contract dated 25/11/2018, the defendant motorcar dealer agreed to sell me a second hand Volkswagen Golf, registration XXX.

 

The vehicle developed a fault on 4/1/19. The vehicle was returned to the defendant for a repair but the repair but the defendant failed to carry out the repair.

I have asserted my right to reject the vehicle and demand a refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 but the defendant has refused.

 

I'm claiming my losses – £1995- cost of the vehicle, £70 car transportation, £27.12 vehicle tax, £157.15 insurance plus interest

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I have made some edits in red. I understand that you will not be able to recover any reimbursement on the insurance. In that case, it looks fine unless you think of something else.


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Ok great I will carry out those edits. The only reason I included the insurance as I’ve been paying for it just in case anything happens to the car in his care, do you think I should cancel it or just incur the cost for the time being?

 

I’ve had to start a new policy for my new car with 0 claims discount as opposed to 9 years so it’s costing me with both policies.

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I suggest that you retain the insurance in place. You don't need another complication of having an uninsured vehicle on the road, or having your car suddenly damaged or stolen and then no insurance cover. At least some of the insurance money should be recoverable so it is a negligible expense which presumably you have already shelled out.


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Yeh that was my thinking. No it renewed beginning of this month so paying it month by month until I get a resolution now.

Edited by dx100uk
quote

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New letter has been received by the garage today, so do I give him 14 days from when I sent the letter or 14 days from when he received it?

 

I’m guessing it’s the latter but wasn’t too sure.

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Yes, give him from today. You might as well be squeakyclean about it.


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On 21/02/2019 at 19:52, BankFodder said:

Yes, give him from today. You might as well be squeakyclean about it.

His 14 days was up today, no reply again. I shall be processing the small claims court document tomorrow.

I think we’ve covered everything up until this point anyway so it’s just a case of filling it out and submitting it right?

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I'm afraid that with the chaos of the forum upgrade I've lost track of a lot of things. If you think you have everything covered then yes you complete the claim form and submit it. You would do well to post up your particulars of claim here before you start.

One thing you need to do is to make sure that you've got the correct name of the business. I have looked up ecarsuk ltd on the Internet and they seem also to be known as RS cars – what does its own your receipt?

You certainly don't want to issue a claim using the incorrect name and then find suddenly that you could be saddled with the cost of having to change the details on your claim form.

For the sake of two or three extra days – make sure that you have got it completely right


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This is the company, also receipt is under same name.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10474386

With regards to particulars of claim, if you scroll a few posts up you gave me some advice on that and I made the edits and reposted it for you. I think we were both happy with that 2 weeks ago and nothings changed with the situation since?

 

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Ok


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59 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Ok

 

Ill use you’re template for the particulars, with regards to the timeline of events I’m guessing the more info the better is it?

i was just going to populate it from when I purchased the car right through with all our communications, to the point where we are at now?

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