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    • if you wish to put up everything like    your defence claimants WS defendants WS   then im sure those here now and future victims will find it of value   if you read upload carefully you'll see its best to upload each as a separate multipage PDF but ofcourse you'll have to redact each page as a jpg picture 1st before merging each to the relevant multipage pdf .   dx  
    • Thanks I’m happy to put something back ! I didn’t have the courage of my convictions to counter claim even though I was really quite proud of the thoroughness of my court bundle ! i really wanted the opportunity to get into the detail with the judge and felt quite cheated when it ended, but of course I realised that they had just moved on to their next victim  will watch this space 👍  
    • I have created your own topic for this as its import to have it own one but placed a link on the thread you posted on.   you should never counterclaim that exposes you to further cost and rarely succeeds esp if they disc' the claim always best to state in a sep letter you will be seeking costs esp loss of days wages at £90 which most judges allow.   as for an sar, its p'haps always better to issue a cpr 31:14 too or in replacement of, an sar.   well done on your important win
    • My wife has directed me to post on this thread as I have just successfully won against these charlatans   My hearing date was all set at my local court for 31st October 2019 all defence papers were filed and served and frankly I was really looking forward to it! This morning I received a letter from BW legal stating in a one line response that I was to take this letter as a notice of discontinuance whereby the claimant KBT (armtrac) discontinues all of the claim. I am beyond disappointed that I didn’t get my chance to see these idiots across a desk! And that’s it I don’t appear to be able to take this further? I now realise I should of had the courage of my convictions and faith in the advice of others to issue a counterclaim! What I have now in my possession is a file of information which would be Gold-dust to the next person in my position! I feel like I would be able to get some sort of closure if I could pass some of this wisdom on but there are many posters here already and every case is different in its own way The key points in my defence were as follows and useful to anyone ‘caught’ at Sandy Acres. Keep the original parking ticket you purchased and send a copy to KBT with a covering letter ASAP do not identify the driver at any stage of the process!!!!  The blue sign uses the word penalty which is contrary to the IPC codes of practice  The red and white sign has a café open sign in front of it  which obscures it from the drivers view both available to download via Google maps Check the date you receive NTK mine was 71 days Do an SAR and you will get back the pictures of the alleged offence in my case they were of such poor quality you could not tell which way up the ticket was in the photo and in no image they held was there a picture showing the ticket and the vehicle numberplate. They offered no other evidence. Pretty soon you will see the money is being sought escalate until they no longer match the figure on the NTK even if it is sent within 56 days When you see a breakdown of costs for the money being sought it will ultimately include legal costs, typically £60 that the solicitor knows cannot be recovered in Small Claims Court. Personally I am now considering reporting BW legal to the law society or solicitors ombudsman for being party to a process which is fundamentally dishonest, an abuse of process, and a complete waste of court resources?   i am happy to help anyone who needs assistance but rest assured that their case against you relies on you caving in and paying, they have no plan B but will try and make you doubt your ability to defend yourself.   Dont worry about small claims Court, it isn’t crown court, just an office with 3 desks and certainly less stressful than a job interview or meeting with the bank and less at stake.   I got to one week from my court date and they gave up!
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Holly443

Arntrac Security Services Lusty Glaze car park Cornwall

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Today we have received a recorded delivery letter from the above company.

 

In October last year i brought a parking ticket at Lusty Glaze car park in Cornwall,

I realised I did not have enough time on it so brought another,

I put them both in the window but 1 must have blown down when I shut the door. (I have both tickets)

 

When I returned to the car I had a parking charge notice.

 

I ignored this and didn't here anything until January when a letter arrived undated called a notice to hirer,

I again ignored this,

 

today have received a recorded delivery letter headed Final Letter Before Debt Recovery or Court action.

 

Any suggestions as my best course of action ?

 

I did not receive the Notice to Hirer which was dated on 05/02/19 which was well over 56 days

 

Thanks in advance for your help

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi.

 

I've moved your thread to the private parking forum for further advice.

 

Thread title updated

 

HB

Edited by Andyorch
Thread title updated

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I see we have had other threads about Armtrac in Cornwall.

 

Could you give us the information requested in the forum sticky please? It will help us to advise you.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

HB

Edited by honeybee13
Typo.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Now, if they sent out this threatogram by recorded then that suggests they know they didnt send out the NTK in time.

 

Let them waste their time waiting for you to respond and in the meanwhile ask the DVLA who has accessed your keeper details and if it was a hire car you ask the hir co when they got the paperwork. As you can see the chnaces of them getting things right are currently pretty low so dont respond and drop yourself in it.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos

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Today we have received a recorded delivery letter from the above company.

 

In October last year i brought a parking ticket at Lusty Glaze car park in Cornwall,

I realised I did not have enough time on it so brought another,

I put them both in the window but 1 must have blown down when I shut the door. (I have both tickets)

 

When I returned to the car I had a parking charge notice.

 

I ignored this and didn't here anything until January when a letter arrived undated called a notice to hirer,

I again ignored this,

 

today have received a recorded delivery letter headed Final Letter Before Debt Recovery or Court action.

 

Any suggestions as my best course of action ?

 

I did not receive the Notice to Hirer which was dated on 05/02/19 which was well over 56 days

 

Thanks in advance for your help

 

You purchased a ticket and displayed it, therefore you admit to accepting the terms. But it 'must have blown down' when you shut the door... surely you would have checked at the time? The spirit of accepting the terms is to display your ticket?

 

When they contacted you to do what they said they would do if you didn't display a valid ticket, you ignored it?

 

If you have both tickets, you have proof and it would be a simple case of showing and demonstrating that there has been a terrible mistake, surely?

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Sorry The Glassman, PPC fleecers don't work that way, they will probably continue to a claim in County Court., and only back down when they are going to lose, od do lose in Court as there was no breach, or their signage etc was non compliant. They are likely out of time with a NTK in this case as well, so they can't do much unless OP appeals and inadvertently identifies themselves as the driver.

 

Best option is as per ericsbrother ignore until a genuine LBA comes from a tame solicitor.


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Sorry The Glassman, PPC fleecers don't work that way, they will probably continue to a claim in County Court., and only back down when they are going to lose, od do lose in Court as there was no breach, or their signage etc was non compliant. They are likely out of time with a NTK in this case as well, so they can't do much unless OP appeals and inadvertently identifies themselves as the driver.

 

Best option is as per ericsbrother ignore until a genuine LBA comes from a tame solicitor.

 

I agree about the unscrupulous business models of these organisations, but the OP knew what she was in for because she clearly states that she purchased a valid ticket (or two). The issue therefore became that it wasn't displayed. You can't then say 'it must have fallen from view in the wind' from the door closing (you would check before walking away).

 

A ticket which must have blown away sounds more like the OP may not have had one to begin with.

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As she paid there is no loss to sue for, the T & C's often are invalid due to errors in signage or even no planning permission for them in the first place, ergo there then can be no contract to breach. These PPC's generally always make errors that renders any claim void. Anyway it's down to Holly443 how she deals with this, our job is to assist in sending the fleecer's back under their rock with no brass if possible.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Buy ticket; display where it's clear to see. Anyone conscious of their actions would look and check to see before walking away.

 

Something amiss here IMHO.

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Buy ticket; display where it's clear to see. Anyone conscious of their actions would look and check to see before walking away.

 

Something amiss here IMHO.

 

Do you work for a PPC? Your answers seem to indicate this? OP take advice from ericsbrother.

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Do you work for a PPC? Your answers seem to indicate this? OP take advice from ericsbrother.

 

Really? I'm a consumer and I've had a go at private charge notices when they've tried it on. But this one seems to be a simple case of accepting that that you were caught out.

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Just bear in mind Glassman, that if there is no Planning Permission for the sign that says tickets must be displayed, then that is a criminal offence by the PPC so no contract that demands display can exist in the first place no matter what the sign says, it has no permission to be there.


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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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accept it when you are caught out? Caught out by what?

 

This is all about contracts and peopel dont accept they have to pay a penalty for normal behaviour in other aspects of their life. For example, buy a pint in a pub and would you pay £100 for spilling it just because there was a sign somewhere behind the bar saying you should? If your telly blew up would you be happy with the retailer saying that the consumer rights act didnt apply because he had a sign that says it doesnt?

 

we dont promote the abuse of someone else's property but when they employ a company to manage that asset it is their business to make sure that their agents also obey the law and in an ideal world the terms offered to use that land is properly spelt out and there is no incentive for a third party to try and make money out of the users of that land when the core terms have been complied with. This is where we come in, the parking co's almost always fail to either use suitabel terms or dont have the correct permissions to demand anything so in this case the OP paid the prescribed fee and should ahve been allowed to enjoy what they paid for. It is as simple as that. i dont have to pay for my telly twice just becuase I didnt watch "Dancing on Ice" last night

 

you may not like the analogies but they are valid as the law is not about parking, it is about contracts, agency, consent etc

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos

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the other thing that experience show us is that the parking co do not accpet appeal based on the law so they will ignore an appeal about correct payment and so forth. terrible mistake? so what, you owe us £100 is their response. you would know this if you had read a nuimber of other threads. they do take peopel to court over the same and lose but that doesnt put them off because they would rather lose 1 well defended case and collect 199 dubious charges than actually comply with the law as it stands. It is simple economics for themas it can be proven that nearly every charge they issue is faulty in one way or another.

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accept it when you are caught out? Caught out by what?

 

Caught out by the terms you agreed to when you 'entered' that scenario? Whether it had PP or not, the sign (which also states a tariff) will also give some indication on what would happen if a valid ticket is not displayed.

 

OP claims to have bought a ticket; and another. Then says it(they) must have 'blown' from view when the door was shut. Who walks away without checking that the permit is on show (why buy one if you don't?)? OP is here now looking for a trump card on how to get the bad people off her back.

 

I'm all for consumer rights and fighting against those bad people but let's accept responsibility for our own wrong doings.

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are you just pig headed or what? there are no wrongdoings in this case by the OP

"caught out"? so you agree that they parking co use entrapment to make their demands then.

You are also ignorant of the law as far as planning goes otherwise you would know that there ISNT a contarct offered because it is a criminal compact.

you are promoting criminal activity so what next, you agree to pay them £100 because you didnt murder someone when they told you to? It is the exact same law so agin I repeat, nothing to do with parking per se, just contracts.

I suggest that you spend a little more time reading before you post again so people can take your commentary seriously from an informed viewpoint, even if it is different but currently all you are doing is making yourself look foolish and possibly be considered a troll

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are you just pig headed or what? there are no wrongdoings in this case by the OP

"caught out"? so you agree that they parking co use entrapment to make their demands then.

You are also ignorant of the law as far as planning goes otherwise you would know that there ISNT a contarct offered because it is a criminal compact.

you are promoting criminal activity so what next, you agree to pay them £100 because you didnt murder someone when they told you to? It is the exact same law so agin I repeat, nothing to do with parking per se, just contracts.

I suggest that you spend a little more time reading before you post again so people can take your commentary seriously from an informed viewpoint, even if it is different but currently all you are doing is making yourself look foolish and possibly be considered a troll

 

Pig headed? Calm down.

 

I'm reading the original post and giving my opinion on it. I think *it* has flaws.

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We try to give practical advice to people who come here and ask about specific problems, whether this be a parking matter or any other consumer problem like housing, each area has its own laws that are applicable and in many places the law is the same. Telling people they are at fault when they arent isnt very helpful and extends the thread into areas that dilute the original question's purpose.

 

If you want to start a general argument about the veracity of illegal signs or whether they are just graffiti then start a thread in the bear garden.

 

If you have something of practical use to offer then say what it is.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos

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I think everyone's had their say now, can we wait for the OP to come back before this thread gets diverted please? Any further posts may be removed.

 

The Glassman, you're welcome to start a discussion thread in the Bear Garden.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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