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    • yes when you get your N180 from the court. on the sols copy omit phone/sog/email.
    • you dont need a copy of the letter. just proof. it might pay you to sar SLC as if they had your correct address on record before loan sales to erudio , that will add another very strong string to your bow toward setting aside this backdoor CCJ and the arrows you'll fire at Arrows (Erudio are arrows DCA in sheeps clothing)   you also might like many others find that you still have access to the online SLC portal. that could be useful with info. like deferral dates etc and address and what they knew and when.   at present you are in the info gathering stage, the more of that you can get the better.
    • IMHO i would never have a DD setup for any consumer credit debt. they are not a priority, like mortgage/rent/CTAX/Gas/Electric.   this gives you a bit more work to do, but it ensures there is always money for the priority things that can threaten the roof over your head or it's the necessary home utils needed with one.   it's also worthy to note that somethings that are unconscious priorities (though NOT!) like mobiles/phone/digital tv and broadband etc DD's often contribute to the real priorities not being paid. careful management of those needs to be exercised, like moving their payment dates to after the priorities are deal with in your calendar, or vice versa move the priorities to before those come out.   it is stunningly amazing how many families fall into priority bill debts by blindly pay these 'mentally essential luxury gadget' bills and are in total ignorance of the effect they have upon their available funds as 'they can't live without them'.
    • Just as UB says, he bailiff does not need to be invited in, but he certainly should have announced himself. i dont suppose he said what the enforcement was for?   The bailiff has to have a "reasonable belief" that the debtor resides at your address, if he is permitted to enter.   In the first post you say the Warrant was addressed to next door, is this your daughters property and did this Richard live at that address or your address.?   We should find out what the bailiff may say to try and justify his actions.    
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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arrows/shoos mbna stayed claim - now N244 but nothing via a court


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Hi,

 

I'm new to the forum, but have been a long time lurker.

 

First of all apologies for how long winded this is, but I hope I include all the relevant information.

 

Alleged card debt from card taken out in 1998.

Alleged debt approx £5k.

Card sold to IDEM Capital Securities August 2012

Alleged Card default August 2013.

Idem Capital Securities assigned alleged debt to Arrow Global November 2015

 

About three years ago I received multiple claims for alleged credit card debts, and with the help of this forum managed to get one claim dropped and ended, one victory in court and a few claims stayed, so thanks for the help there!

 

Anyway, one of them doesn't appear to have gone away, and Shoosmiths appear to be applying to Northampton County Court to get a stay lifted and have my previous defence struck out pursuant to CPR 3.4 and obtain summary judgement pursuant to CPR 24.2 they claim I have no grounds for defending the claim.

 

This was my original defence:

In the County Court Business Centre, Northampton

 

Arrow Global Limited

 

Claimant -AND-

 

Meeee

 

Defendant

 

CASE SUMMARY

 

1. I am the Defendant in this case.

 

2. On X July 2016 the Claimant wrote to the Defendant requesting

repayment of an alleged debt, they had been assigned by Arrow

Global Limited, marked CL1 [short for Claimant's Letter 1]

 

3. On X July 2016 I wrote to the Claimant requesting Verification

of the alleged debt and of their alleged assignment, marked DL1

[short for Defendant's Letter 1]

 

4. I did not receive a reply to my letter.

 

5. On X August 2016 the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton

County Court stating their particulars of claim.

6. The Defendant sent out a CPR18 request letter on X August

2016, asking for the following documents to be produce in court:

  • 1. The Agreement/Contract, including the specific Terms at the

point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes.

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the

CPR PD 16 Para 7.3 where a claim is based upon a written

agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the

agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars or

claim and the originals should be available at the hearing.

Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract

should also be attached.

  • 2. The deed of assignment.
  • 3. The notice of assignment.
  • 4. The default warning letter.
  • 5. The default notice.

7. To date I have not received an acknowledgement of my CPR18, nor

does it appear any of the requested documents have been

forthcoming.

8. The Defendant sent out a letter to Arrow Global Limited on X

August 2016 requesting a copy of the original credit agreement,

with a full breakdown of the account including any interest or

charges applied.

9. To date I have not received an acknowledgement of this request.

10. I returned the Acknowledgement of Service on 12 August 2016

 

11. The Claimant contends that:-

  • 1. The defendant has failed to repay the outstanding amount of

£5k or agree repayment terms.

  • 2. The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the

terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served

pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

  • 3. The claimant claims the sum of £%k
  • 4. C has complied, as far as is necessary, with the pre-action

conduct practice direction.

 

12. The Defendant rebuts all the above as in Consumer Credit

Agreements before 2007, the following must be provided:

  • 1. The Agreement/Contract, including the specific Terms at the

point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes.

  • 2. The deed of assignment.
  • 3. The notice of assignment.
  • 4. The default warning letter.
  • 5. The default notice.

 

The Defendant has requested the above information and to date the

Claimant has failed to provide any such information. As such the

alleged agreement is unenforceable and no claim should have been

made.

The defendant respectfully requests the Claimant's claim be Struck

Out with prejudice due to the lack of an agreement, deed of

assignment, notice of assignment, default warning letter or

default notice.

 

Statement of Truth I believe the facts stated within this Case

Summary to be true..

 

Dated this day X September 2016.

 

 

So my defence was submitted, along with two other defences on the same date.

 

Nothing further was received from Shoosmiths or the courts, and the claims were stayed.

 

I should have asked to have them struck out, but I wasn't fully aware of the procedures, and couldn't afford to pay anything to the courts.

 

So roll on two years and three months, and Shoosmiths start writing to me again, saying they did not receive my original CCA request or CPR18 letter in 2016 (funny how two more were received, and returned, and they were all sent in the same recorded delivery envelope!)

 

They now claim they have provided all of the relevant information, and I still dispute this.

 

Their alleged agreement is an application form for a card around the time I had allegedly taken out a few credit cards.

Their "terms and conditions" is a reconstituted partial list, it even says for items X,Y,Z refer to your terms and conditions!

They then have another set of terms including MBNA web address details, the web address didn't exist in 1998!

 

Their letters also refer to one credit card number, then it changes to a new card number that they have assigned, which to me just points to multiple pieces of incorrect or fabricated information.

 

I chose to ignore all of this further correspondence, as the claim was stayed.

 

Then earlier this week, they have sent a further copy of this "information" along with a covering letter to me as follows:

 

Arrow Global Limited -v- Meeee

Lender MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Claim XYZ123

 

We refer to the above matter.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of our application for summary Judgement which has been filed with the County Court Business Centre today.

 

At this stage, we ask that you consider your position and confirm if you are willing to consent to our client's application, by no later than 4pm on 19th February 2019

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Shoosmiths LLP

 

This covering letter includes a copy of their N244 Application Notice to lift the stay and all previously submitted information.

 

 

Again, apologies for the long winded post, but I ask, how should I either try to stop this dead, or again defend?

 

I am actually happy to attend court if it comes to that.

 

I read on one of the other threads that this could be submitted.

 

Would I be able to use it as a reply, as it has taken them over two years to get incorrect information that they think they can use in court?

 

right so a Lloyds credit card debt

 

its a N244 you've received

 

on the original claim you ONLY file this:

 

This is my defence

I quote Consumer Credit act of 1974 they did not comply with statutory 12 days plus 2 to supply the signed credit agreement. Northampton court have already stayed this case previously because restons were unable to supply requested information.

 

or that's not what you filed by your resume of it

if its not what you file

we need it verbatim please.

 

and scan to PDF the agreement sheet they have sent

the rest is useless to see

 

If anyone can reply, I'd like to say thanks now, and I will be extremely grateful.

 

Will come back with the results.

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have you had notification from the COURT about this?

 

if not then await that

we have seen numerous examples of claimants sending completed N244's but never actually copying them to the court.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi, thanks for the quick reply.

 

No, nothing from court yet.

 

Their N244 is typed and dated 12 February 2019, so if they have sent it I'd have expected it to be done electronically.

 

I've checked on my Money Claim Online "account" and nothing is showing yet.

 

I'm happy to wait it out to see if anything appears, but should I reply to their 19th Feb deadline, or ignore that as well?

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You dont do ANYTHING until you hear from the court. As mentioned, they like to pretend theyve filed a claim as they know many people get scared, believe its been filed and start payments.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Again, thanks for the reply.

 

I will wait and see what happens.

 

I had to laugh at one of the solicitors acting on behalf of another debt collector.

 

Letter from them was along the lines of "as we won in court and now have a CCJ against you, please contact us to arrange a payment plan".

 

Er... no, I went to court and your case was thrown out!:biggrin:

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prob a bog standard form letter designed to mislead. Not that they care. You call them out on it and they claim its an admin error.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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retitled for clarity and moved to the legal forum

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Could you scan and redact/upload a copy of the N244 and witness statement with the main exhibits.

 

Do you still have the original N1 from this claim as we will need to see the Particulars of claim.

 

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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one multipage PDF only please

read upload

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Small update on this.

 

First of all,

I've been scanning the various documents, but I can only save them as JPG as I don't have the software to transfer the scans to PDF.

 

Is there an online JPG-PDF converter that anyone would recommend?

 

I'm not the best with IT and won't be able to afford the Adobe software.

 

 

Now to the update.

 

Shoosmiths have managed to get the claim transferred to my local court.

 

I checked online yesterday and it was listed as transferred, then I received confirmation today.

 

Letter says:

The claim has been transferred to the County Court at XXXX for that court to deal with the claimant's application to lift the stay and ask for summary judgement.

 

The court will refer the application to a judge, or if there is to be a hearing, will send you and other parties notice of the time, date and place of the hearing.

 

You will be sent a copy of the judges decision.

 

All further communication should be addressed to

 

XXXX

XXXXX

 

So will I be able to write to the court saying their claim is unfounded and the claim should remain stayed?

 

Or will I have to wait for the judges decision?

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you wait for the court to allocate..

and shoos have not managed to get it transferred, it always gets transferred to your local court as you are the defendant.

 

as for PDF

if you read upload

it suggests programs

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok, I've managed to get the N244 and original N1 in to a PDF document.

 

I've also included (most of) their letters and statements and a copy of my original defence.

 

 

I haven't included my CPR18 request or letter asking for copy of original agreement.

 

 

If you need to see anything else, please let me know and I will amend the PDF or add another.

Z Shoosm Arrow Comp 1A1.compressed.pdf

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name on page 29

ref no point 15 page 8.

 

that's an application form not a signed CCA and fails yo have all the prescribed terms and conditions

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for your reply and the heads up on the info i've left in.

 

I can't edit my post so i've reported it hoping a moderator can remove it.

 

I've amended the pdf and will replace it..

 

 

I've actually defended similar in court and won, so hopefully this will go the same way.

 

The previous one was also an application form, but was illegible and didn't have the terms and conditions.

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Well my bad too

For some reason the hidden report didnt post in my post

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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" So will I be able to write to the court saying their claim is unfounded and the claim should remain stayed?

 

Or will I have to wait for the judges decision? "

 

It informs you on the N244 what action you must take after point 3 " TO THE DEFENDANT "

 

You must submit a witness statement in response with objection and reasons as to why their application should be dismissed.

 

There should be a hearing for Summary Judgment..the claimant has requested one and I assume paid the fee as they also request costs in their application.

 

Take a read of the following CPR links which explain the process of Summary Judgment and Striking Out a defence.....

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03#3.4

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03/pd_part03a

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part24

 

" I haven't included my CPR18 request or letter asking for copy of original agreement." Just as well as you cant use CPR 18 to request either a copy of the agreement or anything in Small Claims Track

 

" I've actually defended similar in court and won, so hopefully this will go the same way."

 

This is an entirely different process when a claimant makes an application to strike out defence/summary judgment...shortcuts the normal process.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Small update on this, and it appears a little odd.

 

Arrow have dropped Shoosmiths as their legal representative, and will now be using their "specialist in-house litigation team".

 

Has anyone heard of Arrow Global's "specialist in-house litigation team"?

 

Please see attached copy of letter and Notice of change of legal representative.

 

 

So what are your thoughts on this?

 

Will Arrow still rely on Shoosmiths paperwork?

 

Will they have to re submit documents to the court?

 

This notification of change has been sent to the County Court Business Centre, rather than my local County Court, where Shoosmiths have applied to get the claim transferred.

Z Shoosm 2 Arrow.pdf

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Not odd at all .......seen it on few threads this week...same notice...they are simply dumping Shoos on existing claims and using their own preferred counsel.

 

Lowells did the same years ago.

 

Claim/Application proceeds as normal

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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