Jump to content


Andy711351

NIP - 76 in a 50 motorway zone - short term disqualification

Recommended Posts

Hi Al

 

I have a clean driving license

 

I am 45 yeas old. I am a doctor by profession and have had a clean medical record

 

I received a NIP for doing 76 on 50mph on the motorway.

 

Asking for advice rather than being told off

 

Ive contacted few 'free initial advice solicitors'

 

I gather the options I have are

 

1. plead not guilty ( I don't think Im going to that)

2. Plead guilty and hope for mitigation

 

The offence allegedly carries 6PP and maximum £2500 ( n view of Motorway)

 

I have clean driving license.

 

One firm told me tat they can mitigate for me for my circumstances and get me a 7-56 ay ban which think I can cope with

 

My questions are

 

1. If we ( solicitor and I0) mitigate for this option instead of PP, I think my license will be endorsed for 4 years. This will have an effect o my insurance, but after years have passed by, is it still taken into consideration for insurance purposes. For example I am aware that I money has penalty points, after 4 yeas the are no longer on the license and after4 years one does not need to declare them to the car insurance companies. Is hat he same with a disqualification lasting les than 56 days

 

2. I am a medical professional . Please dont attempt to shame me I unintentionally exceed the limit according to the speed camera and hold my hand up. Will any conviction ( e it 6PP r shot ban) be criminal record? It does have implications because I will have to declare it to my professional body, which I would certainly do. It may cause me to be suspended for 3-6months

 

Finally, I have looked on the Gov website. What is the code for a short term disqualification ban which will appear on the license. am not talking about BA10 an BA30, which I believe are driving whilst disqualified. Rather, asking what code will be displayed on my license if I am disqualified for less than 56 days

 

Your feedback is appreciated

 

 

Many hanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't do telling off here – other than you seem to be labouring your own sense of guilt rather a lot. Really not necessary.

 

I can't give you the technical information you want in respect of the codes – but I would say that the best thing you can do is simply present yourself in court, on your own, be absolutely contrite. Explain that you are a medical practitioner and the although this doesn't in any way excuse or mitigate what you've done, you'd ask the court to bear in mind that your licence is important for you if you have to visit patients and that other than that you really have no justification for exceeding the speed limit in the way that you did. Point out to the justices that you have never offended before. I don't know how long you've been driving – but if you have been driving for a substantial period of time then you can point out that you got a long history of clean driving and that this is really quite exceptional. If you happen to have passed your test yesterday then you probably had better keep your mouth shut.

 

I don't think you can do better than that. I don't know why people think that throwing money at legal professionals in these kinds of circumstances is at all useful.

 

This kind of thing won't be treated as a criminal record. You will have to check the rules as to whether you are required to declare this – but even if you are, there must be thousands of doctors who are declaring these things every year and I can't imagine that they are all being suspended.

 

If you are at all unsure then I suggest that you go down to your local magistrates court for a morning and sit at the back of the court and see how it's done. This is likely to restore a little calm and give you a little confidence when it comes to your own Big Day.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do apologise for the grammatical errors.

 

I am using my iphone to do this

 

I am on call and posted this in my break

 

Hence please accept my sincere apologies for all the spelling and grammatical errors. Its embarrassing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do apologise for the grammatical errors.

 

I am using my iphone to do this

 

I am on call and posted this in my break

 

Hence please accept my sincere apologies for all the spelling and grammatical errors. Its embarrassing

 

That's all right. It's all in keeping with the medical culture that no one can understand what they say – either because of the quality of their writing or because of the quality of their grammar.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear BankFodder

 

I been driving since 1998

 

Had two previous FPN for going over 30 mph. They were 5 years apart so the maximum points I had at anytime was 3 points on my license and I spent them ages ago in 2010

 

I called various firms. the most famous one, who we may all know, who defend footballers and celebs said it may cost upto £8K for pleading no gulty as they are loophole experts

 

Another firm said £900 fixed fee and they will send a barrister with me to mitigate a guilt plea

 

Anyhow many many Thanks for your feedback :)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

That's all right. It's all in keeping with the medical culture that no one can understand what they say – either because of the quality of their writing or because of the quality of their grammar.

 

Lol :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that case simply tell the court that you got a clean licence. Don't tell them that you have never done this before. Just that you have a clean licence.

 

Save the £900 to pay your fine. Getting a barrister really won't make any difference. You are professional articulate person who presumably is able to present themselves in a confident way.

 

The kind of people who need legal representation are people who aren't sufficiently articulate or lucid to be able to present themselves and their own position before lay justices.

 

Frankly, to be confronted by someone who is pleading guilty and who has nothing other to say than to express their remorse and to make a clean breast of it, yet who thinks that they are going to get some preferential treatment by spending part of their elevated income on a legal professional, would get my back up if I was sitting on the bench.

 

It's a judgement that you will have to make. I don't see anything wrong with straight-dealing.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks BankFodder

 

I personally thank anyone who makes a useful comment in my thread.

 

I will keep everyone updated once I hear more because I am aware the police can take upto 6 months to file a court case

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You appear to be suggesting that a ban would be preferable to you than Points?

 

I think it highly unlikely that with a clean licence, and your occupation you would be looking at a ban - certainly with remorse expressed, previously clean licence and needing to be able to drive for work. The amount of the fine could be high as it is based on income at that level, but I can't understand why you would want a ban rather than the likely 6 points?

 

The offence code (so far as I am aware) would be SP50 irrespective of whether that results in a ban or not. If action was taken through the Mags Court then this would be classed as a criminal conviction but surely your professional body would not view that in the same way as, say, a criminal conviction for violence, and maybe even disclosure would not be required for straightforward motoring offences? Yes you would need to disclose the offence to your insurer or any future potential insurers, but as an SP50 whether a ban or fine resulted - this would only be different if a ban was ordered under totting up

 

Others may well be much more clued up on this subject, but I don't see it being any more complicated than in needs to be - other than the likely fine where a professional would have a sufficiently high income for it to be quite punitive

 

As above, admit the offence, show remorse and disappointment in yourself for your actions, offer to take whatever the court awards and plea for consideration to be given to a previously good driving history and the need for you to drive in your employment


Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

DONATE HERE

 

If I have been helpful in any way - please feel free to click on the STAR to the left!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You appear to be suggesting that a ban would be preferable to you than Points?

 

t

 

Dear Sidewinder

 

First of all many thanks for your comments

 

Secondly I like your username. In my specialty, we use some tubes which have various shapes and one of my favourite ones is called Sidewinder

 

I spoke to one firm last week on a free consultation basis.

 

They asked can cope with upto 56 days ban. I said yes because although I do use my car for work, I have a colleague who works in the same department lives close by and has offered to give me a lift. The legal advice I got was than the ban would last the duration but I wont have 6 points on my license. Your suggestion is than irrespective of the which one I get, I will have a SP50 on my license. I presume after 4 years that will no longer be there. Am I correct?

 

Finally, I know I maybe contradicting myself, but if I am accepting a guilty plea, and if a ban or 6 PP are ultimately the same code and implication with regards to my personal circumstances ( as I have this willing colleague) would I even need to go and mitigate if I am certainly going to end up with one of the two outcomes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can I remove the AA in your title its confusing...

 

man in the middle should be around soon.

probably our best advisor on this matter.

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

updated for clarity too


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

re: Reporting to GMC, I suspect that you know far more about how GMC works than anyone here. As it's going to Magistrates court (not Fixed Penalty Notice) I'm sure the earlier advice that it will be a criminal conviction and so will be recorded on the Police National Computer (your "criminal record" as such) is right.

 

How GMC deal with doctors with speeding convictions I have no idea. Do they really get suspended, if there are no aggravating factors (i.e. you didn't kill or injure anyone, you weren't drunk)? That seems rather over-zealous of them if they do, but I really have no idea. Can you just ask them? Are doctors in a 'trade union' who'd be able to advise?

 

Some professional bodies (and insurers) regard a ban as more serious than the number of points. There's no all-purpose general rule. Might be worth checking with GMC, if that's possible, before going down the 'ban instead of points' route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
re: route.

Thankyou Ethel for the useful comment. I will check.

 

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am amazed a professional who is concerned there is so much at stake hasn’t done basic research (& nor, it appears, have the legal professionals you have approached).

Surely their obligation to their client is to find out what their client’s main objective(s) is / are?, and the impact with the GMC appears to be your primary concern.

 

If in the BMA (as your Trades Union) : have you asked them?

Your defence body (MDU / MPS) if you have one

Have you informally approached the GMC?

 

Furthermore, the most cursory of searches provides:

https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/DC4594_CE_Decision_Guidance___Annex_D___Convictions_Guidance.pdf_58067974.pdf

Motoring offences which result in a charge or summons to appear before a criminal court require disclosure to the GMC. We do not investigate speeding offences unless there are specific aggravating features which raise a question about the doctor’s fitness to practise.

 

I’m just gobsmacked neither you nor they have looked for and found this, and separately that they might aim for a ban rather than points!

 

The ‘advantage’ of a ban : “over & done with” rather than the future prospect of a ban by “totting-up”.

Yet, you’ve had points before and seen them lapse by not getting further points before they expired.

 

You MIGHT get a ban. A ban is possible even at 66-75 in a 50, and 76 is just into the next band for sentencing.

(Check the Magistrates Court Sentencing Guidelines online)

 

My advice?. Get a solicitor (local to the court, who knows the bench and the best approach to take!).Plead guilty, attending court, with the solicitor making a plea in mitigation.

Hope for points and a band C fine, then avoid getting more points.

Let the GMC know as soon as you are summonsed and let them know you are going to plead guilty (and when you do so, the outcome). If there are no complicating factors, if you keep the GMC informed: that is where their interest will end.

 

An alternative will be to let one of the “legal loophole” expert firms look at it and see if they can get you off on a technicality.

Advantages : no points, no risk of ban, no effect in your insurance, and definitely no GMC involvement.

Disadvantages: Cost, relies on there being a looophole to find (else all the advantages vanish!), if it means them attending court you may lose credit for a guilty plea and the “local knowledge” factor.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am amazed a professional who is concerned there is so much at stake hasn’t done basic research (& nor, it appears, have the legal professionals you have approached).

Surely their obligation to their client is to find out what their client’s main objective(s) is / are?, and the impact with the GMC appears to be your primary concern.

 

.

Dear Bazza

 

Thanks for your helpful advice :).

 

I have just sent back the notice of intended prosecution yesterday, so I will be awaiting the highly likely court summons. The whole thing is very fresh and recent and I have jut started the research. I haven't received any summons or anything further tht the notice as of yet

 

I did call the loophole experts and they did actually advise me to ask GMC anonymously. They warned against identifying myself when asking the GMC at this stage even for advice, though I haven't had any summons. I called the GMC for advice. They refused to give any advice without me identifying.

 

BMA- I was a member with them for 20 years. At some point last year I asked them to help me with an industrial tribunal at work. I was very disappointed with their help and the service so I discontinued my membership

 

MDU- I am a member but they deal with clinical governance issues and patient care and clinical incidences/negligence's but I will ask

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I called the GMC for advice. They refused to give any advice without me identifying.

.........

 

MDU- I am a member but they deal with clinical governance issues and patient care and clinical incidences/negligence's but I will ask

 

Re: GMC

Why anonymously?

Nothing to stop you saying “I MAY be prosecuted....(& am considering if I should plead ‘not guilty’)”, so why the concern of identifying yourself. If it proceeds to court you’ll have to identify yourself at the summons stage anyway, as per the GMC guidance.

 

Re: MDU. As it isn’t an issue within your indemnified clinical practice I agree it is unlikely they’ll provide you with legal representation. However I suspect you won’t be the first MDU member to be prosecuted for speeding (nor likely the last ..), so my expectation is that:

a) they won’t provide a lawyer for you, but

b) they will be able to advise you re: the GMC, its processes, and what your expectations should be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Again Bazza

I shall do that and see what the GMC say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know with the NMC they see the difference between a motoring conviction and a criminal conviction as being the issue.

motoring you don't need to report, criminal you do but just because you need to report it doesn't mean it will actually have any effect.

 

It will go on your PVC/DBS check though so it is likely something you will need to have a discussion with someone about if and when that gets renewed.

I haven't personally had an issue like this but a nurse friend has a criminal conviction for a car related offence and they just asked her what happened and if it had any effect on her doing her job

- the thing that most went in here favour:

she had admitted guilt, hadn't tried to get out of it and had been honest about the whole thing.

 

I assume the GMC are as big on honesty as the NMC.

I doubt very much the GMC cares that you were speeding, but they may very well care how you handle it.

honesty is definitely your best policy here.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I assume the GMC are as big on honesty as the NMC.

I doubt very much the GMC cares that you were speeding, but they may very well care how you handle it.

honesty is definitely your best policy here.

 

Thanks Kirstyo for the feedback

 

Very reassuring to know

 

Ive sent the NIP form back signed and awaiting the single justice procedure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure if anyone is familiar with the M5 southbound , between junction 5 and 6.

 

Before anyone judges I admit yes I was speeding and will plead guilty

 

I would however appreciate some useful feedback

 

Yesterday in daylight I decided to check where I was caught speeding

 

Just before approaching junction 6 on the M5 southbound maybe 2-3 miles prior to the junction there is a a speed limit sign of 50. There are 2 of these along the stretch. the reason is that there are works on the slip roads, not the motorway itself, so the three lanes are all working. Its not that the motorway has been narrowed to a single lane only.

 

Now I am not 100% which camera flashed me. Just as the exit number 6 comes off the M5, there is the sign indctaing the end of the speed limit. Then a few yards after that, there is the T shaped post with the camera on it. Few yards after the camera theres another sign indicating the end of the speed limit zone

 

I know a camera flashed me because it was at 9 pm. What I am not sure is if it was one before junction 6 or the one after it. If it was the one just after the first end of speed limit sing, then technically speaking was i now still in a 50 or 70mph zone

 

In addition, the stretch of the M5 where this speed limit was imposed was I think only 2 miles. The 2 speed limit signs are on the left hand side where the hard shoulder is. I was in the middle lane, and either I was too tired and didnt see them which would be my fault or its also possible that because I was in the middle lane, the lorries on the slow lane on the left had obscured my view.

 

If the camera caught me was one before the junction 6, then I have no qualms, but f it was the one just after the J6, then right at the separation of J6, the end speed limit sign can be seen.

 

I have sent my NIP back.

 

Will anything be held agaisnt me if I ask the camera office for the photos just to see whch camera caught me. If it will affect my case, then i wont ask for that and just plea guilty

 

Can I use this in mitigation? again I am not saying I wasnt speeding. I was caught at 76 and i respect that but wanted to run these two point by the very helpful CAGGERS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello

 

its been almost 4 months since my speeding

 

i sent the nip in time and got an acknowledgement of receipt

 

so far i havent heard anything else yet

 

im aware of the 6 months rule for court summons from the daye of the offence

 

Is it 6 months to hear back from the court or have they got 6 months to file it with the court which means i may hear feom the court much longer than 6 months from the daye of the offence ?

 

essentially what is the clear 6 months deadline for please

 

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 months from the offence to lodge the papers with the court.

 

Once lodged, the “clock is stopped” and there will be no effect of any delay that occurs until the court issued the summons.

If the court is very busy and doesn’t have an available date, only issuing the summons much later, it doesn’t affect the “6 months” limit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The first you will hear will be a "Single Justice Procedure Notice" (SJPN). As mentioned they have 6 months to produce this and usually take all of that. The usual sentence for that speed is  6 points (1mph slower and you would have been offered a Fixed Penalty of £100 + 3 points). Unless you opt for a court hearing (option will come with the SJPN) the SJ will sentence you to that in your absence (you cannot attend a SJ hearing). Only if a ban is considered by the SJ (unlikely)will it be transferred to a full court hearing. The SJ will not ban you in your absence.

 

I'm not too clear why you would prefer a ban but if one is considered it will not be 56 days. Seven to fourteen is more likely. If you want to argue for that you must go to court but there is no guarantee that the court will accede to your request as the choice is not yours.

 

I have limited internet access until Monday and if you have any questions I may not see them until then.

 

 

Edited by Man in the middle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...