Euro Car Parks ANPR PCN - overstay as took time to park+exit - Cornhill Wolverhampton

[justme9 1]

Hi all, I'd appreciate some help/advice regarding the above please.

 

On 29th September, I parked in a Euro Car Parks location.

I paid by phone, and have the receipt/proof of purchase from 14:31 to 17:31 on that date (£3.20; £3 for parking plus the 20p service charge for using the phone service).

 

According to their CCTV, I entered the car park at 14:13. I remember spending quite some time driving round waiting for a space, found one but re-parked (I couldn't get out; it was clearly left as everybody else had that issue!) so it took some time for somebody to leave. I now understand the grace period was 10 mins from car park entry to payment.

 

Come departure time, I was back at my car at 17:00/17:05. However, the car park has me exiting (via CCTV) much later; I don't have the original notice to hand but I think it was just before 18:00. This is correct, because the car park was just a massive queue due to surrounding roads being blocked and nobody could leave.

 

I didn't really think anything of it/never contemplated an issue until I had a notice from Euro Car Parks in October (received by me on 16th October) stating that "the P&D/permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking." I wrote to them (not recorded delivery) with proof of my purchase, offered to pay £1 to cover the difference/what the parking would have been, explained I was hunting for a space/queuing etc, didn't think much of it. No response.

 

I then had a letter from Debt Recovery Plus dated 6th December (paying your parking charge, how to settle, what happens if I don't pay, a supreme court decision so do not ignore this), and I sent a copy of what I sent to Euro Car Parks. No reply.

 

I had a further letter from them dated 28th December (notice of intended court action). I ignored this letter.

 

I had a further letter from them dated 14th January, with a final settlement offer. Again mentioned court and CCJs. I also ignored this letter.

 

Today I received a letter from Zenith Collections.

It shares it is sent without prejudice, they'll collect the debt and pursue to a legal conclusion if necessary, they urge me to act now etc.

It is titled "notice of debt recovery assignment" and says the date of the notice is 29th January and all communication should be with them.

 

I called them, mentioned the offer made, that others have not responded, etc.

I also made the same offer to them.

They will only accept the reduced settlement rate of £136 (from £160).

They do not want copies of the parking ticket/payment made or correspondence to Euro Car Parks/DRP (who seem to be the same as Zenith).

They said they will take me to court and they recommend I seek legal advice.

 

With all of the above, is there any advice available here please as to what my next steps should be?

Lesson learnt; send everything recorded delivery in future/be aware of parking cover if there's a big queue/you're still expected to pay even if queuing!

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

I just found this bit, so here are answers to questions

 

1 Date of the infringement - 29th September 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] - 5th October 2018

 

3 Date received - 16th October 2018

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes - specifically paragraph 9 (2)(b)

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? - Yes - two photos of car number plate only

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] - no appeal, offered to pay £1 to cover difference, sent parking ticket payment receipt which covered 14:31 - 17:31

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up - No

 

7 Who is the parking company? - Euro Car Parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Cornhill Wolverhampton

 

Euro Car Parks are a member of the British Parking Association (stated on letter).

 

All other correspondence detailed above.

Edited February 5, 2019 by dx100uk
merge

[lookinforinfo 2,142]

You pay for the time you parked not for the time you drive around the car park trying to find a place to park or waiting to leave.

Did you send a copy of the ticket or the actual ticket when you offered to pay?

 

Also can you confirm the dates you confirmed for the NTK.

Date of NTK 5/10/18 date received 16/10/18.

Eleven days is a long time......

 

Just ignore their continued attempts to chisel money out of you .

You owe them nothing.

Totally ignore them.

 

Should they be stupid enough to take this further please help us by posting up a copy of the NTK and taking photos of the notices in the car park [especially the entrance and the ticket machine].

 

Could you please also check with the planning department of the local Council and ask if they have given permission to erect the car park signs under the Town and Country [advertisements] Regulations.

Edited February 5, 2019 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk 8,785]

ignore them!!

and stop ringing powerless fleecers and DCA's

they are NOT BAILIFFS

and have

ZERO legal powers on any debts.

 

until/unless you get a letter of/before claim from one off their fake/tame paperonly solicitors don't do make any further contact

 

dx

[justme9 1]

Thanks lookingforinfo, I sent them a copy of the email showing the parking paid for (just a print of the image attached).

 

I offered to pay the difference because when I googled when it first landed, I saw other people who had been told they had to pay "because they were deemed to be using the car park facilities." I never thought to look here at the time.

 

Dates for the NTK are correct, I was away so can't shed any more light on those dates unfortunately.

 

I'll see what happens next and in the meantime, see if I can get images of the signs etc from Street View (I'm not local to Wolverhampton...!) and ask the local council about signage.

 

dx100uk - thanks, noted.

[brassnecked 1,607]

Pay them nothing, it's not your fault that you couldn't exit the Car Park due to traffic it's not your fault that their ANPR is cheap and nasty.

[Mezzle 112]

I now understand the grace period was 10 mins from car park entry to payment.

 

This is a minimum, and not a maximum - if you can't park, you can't park.

 

When you day you're not local to wolves - if you're less local than Birmingham - I might be enticed to go out and take some pics for you - fed up of these clowns.

[justme9 1]

Thanks brassnecked and Mezzle.

 

I'm not local - I was there for football (Wolves v Southampton), so thanks for the offer Mezzle.

Maybe let's see what happens and go from there, rather than you having to pop along?

 

I've had a look on Street View this morning, but it's an old image; the car park was tarmac when I was there, with spaces marked/painted out and the entrance/exit was more defined.

[FTMDave 447]

Have a read of this case. Not your fault if there was a huge queue http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

[justme9 1]

Thanks Dave, an interesting read.

[JoeyJoeC 191]

Couldn't find any planning application for the signage: http://planningonline.wolverhampton.gov.uk/online-applications/

[brassnecked 1,607]

Looks like the fleecers are on to another loser here.

[silverfox1961 4,624]

Hi

I have seen on my travels where signs state that parking fees must be paid within 10 minutes of entering the car park or a charge will be issued. Total Rubbish in my opinion.

 

The Fistral Beach case, while not a leading case, it is very persuading as an example if this went to court.

 

ECP should have known that on that day, a football match was on and if roads are blocked for any reason but they don't care. All they see is the money. I will bet that lots of other cars on that day got parking tickets.

 

You are out of time for any appeal so all you can do is sit this out. There is no point contacting ECP as you will be ignored and as for DR+ and Zenith-Same company-both totally powerless.

The only time to respond is if you get a Letter Before Action/Claim. This is where pro-active actions will help but that's not for now.

[justme9 1]

Thanks for all of the replies.

 

I had another letter today which shall be filed.

 

 

 

About your parking charge

Thank you for your communication regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN). The time to challenge the charge has now expired and therefore access to an Independent Appeals Service (if applicable) is no longer available. However, in order to resolve this matter, I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is payable.

 

My findings

The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. Those signs state that all drivers must make a valid payment to park. On 29/09/2018 the vehicle was parked without a valid payment for parking being made and the PCN was correctly and legitimately issued as a result.

 

What you need to do now

Please ensure that £136.00 is paid by 19/02/2019.

 

Continues and then says about going to court etc.

 

 

So, good to know given there was a valid payment for parking that has been provided to them. Anyway, I shall file as per advice and see what happens next.

[justme9 1]

Had a letter today from Zenith Collections "notice of intention to commence legal proceedings."

 

Can share the whole letter if needed but in essence, they're offering a discounted settlement offer of £160 and if not received it will revert to the previous amount which is... £160. So, not making much sense in English there!

 

The above posts said wait for a letter for action so for now I'll file this, unless there's any other advice please.

[Mezzle 112]

It's probably worth an upload - as from the wording you've written - it might actually be a letter before action...

[dx100uk 8,785]

ignore

only a SOLICITOR can issue a letter of claim.

a DCA is NOTHING!!

 

Mezzle please get reading up.

if you don't know...don't post

[justme9 1]

Here you are, many thanks.

Letter 230219.pdf

[Mezzle 112]

Sorry dx! *hangs head*

[silverfox1961 4,624]

"Notice of intention to commence legal proceedings" Means absolutely nothing!

 

"Despite our offer of a reduced payment of £160" Erm! £160 isn't a reduced payment. Totally laughable letter.

 

I echo Dx's post.

 

I suspect the next letter will be from either Gladstones or BW Legal with the title "Letter Before Claim". It is at this time that you can act. Before then, sit on your hands.

[ericsbrother 3,457]

the POFA limits any charge to the keeper to that expressed on the NTK so if that asked for £100 that is all they can demand.

 

If the signage told the driver that other amounts can be added then that amount must be also indicated in the terms of parking so although many parking co's say that collection and admin fees will be added as they dotn say how much at the time then they cnat claim the amount is a contracual matter.

 

The reality is that they whack on a charge to scare you into paying up before you think it will go up to £200 and then £1000 or whatever.

 

however, it is always £160 because peopel wouldnt pay £200 without questioning this and then they would realise that it is all a trick and the parking co's would get nothing, not even the original £85-100.

 

In time this will creep up to say £190 and hey presto, they will all charge the same uncorn food tax once one finds they can get away with it.

Edited February 23, 2019 by dx100uk
Spacing