Npower closed Account and continues to Bill!

comebackjimmy · January 31, 2019

Hello all

In the Autumn of 2017 I moved into a new property.

Both Gas and Electricity were provided by Npower on a PostPay meter.

I immediately contacted them to advise them who I was and they set up new accounts for the property in my name.

I then went to a comparison website and ended up switching both fuels to Iresa.

Npower did not object to the Gas being switched but did initially object to the Electricity being switched.

I contacted Npower who said that they no longer objected and Iresa should apply for the transfer.

I subsequently received final bills from Npower which I promptly paid and closure of the accounts and commenced paying Iresa by monthly Direct Debit.

I continued to receive bills for Electricity from Npower, some were issued and cancelled and they appeared to have some confusion, then re-issued with different amounts.

I ignored the lot.

However, it got to the point where Npower were threatening action including adverse credit reports.

I wrote a letter of complaint and this was duly investigated, if that is the right word.

Npower claimed that Iresa had not requested that the electricity be switched over the second time and that I was still liable for it.

To complicate matters Iresa has gone bust and the new supplier is busy absorbing the accounts into their own operation.

I believe having contracted with Iresa, paid my final bill with Npower and been notified of account closure by Npower that I owe them nothing.

This is currently out with Face2Face, their field agents which is likely the last debt collection action before an application for Disconnection (or a prepay meter) is made.

Anybody got any advice?

Thanks in advance for reading and contributing.

Edited February 7, 2019 by dx100uk
spacing

BankFodder · January 31, 2019

Start off by sending Npower an SAR. Do it tomorrow morning. Send it first class recorded delivery. Be aware that Npower will eventually respond with a form requesting that you provide various identity details before they are prepared to comply with the request. They are not entitled to do this and it is up to you whether you comply or whether you want to make trouble for them. Someone else on this forum is already preparing to begin a legal action against them for their unlawful obstructive behaviour and their breach of statutory duty.

Anyway, you need to send them an SAR.

How much evidence have you got of the fact that you contacted Iresa and that you transfer the account to them? Also, how much evidence have you got that Npower have permitted the transfer?

Also, have you written to Npower and formally told them that you are disputing the matter – or have you been conducting everything on the telephone?

BankFodder · January 31, 2019

I have drafted an amended subject access request for you.

[Your address]

[Their address]

[Date]

Dear Sir/Madam

GENERAL DATA PROTECTION REGULATIONS - SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST - and Letter of Claim

ACCOUNT /REF NUMBER XXXXXXXX

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you. - OR MORE SPECIFIC TIME OR PURPOSE - BUT BE CAREFUL DON'T LIMIT YOUR SAR TOO MUCH - see warnings about charges for excessive requests

This Subject Access Request includes - but is not limited to any data you hold about me in respect of any matter and held in any form including; statements, notes, screen notes, recordings, internal correspondence and external correspondence. Please note that this Subject Access Request is not limited to the account/reference number mentioned above but that number has been provided purely as a starting reference for you.

For the avoidance of doubt, and as stated above, this Subject Access Request requires disclosure of ALL personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you

there is no applicable fee for this data disclosure – unless you feel that my request is manifestly unfounded, excessive or repetitive – in which case you have a duty to let me know without any delay.

Under the new GDPR regime, you must satisfy this data disclosure request as soon as possible and in any event within one month.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return however, you are not entitled to impose any formality upon me or to require that I complete any particular form or template before you comply with your statutory duty.

I also require you to confirm to me that you are processing my personal data, how you acquired it, for what purpose you are processing it and also to identify all the parties with whom you have shared it. You are required to provide this information regardless of whether you believe that the substantive disclosure satisfies the conditions which permit you to impose a charge.

I also required to know whether my data has been subject to any automatic processing which has resulted in decisions or suggested decisions being made in respect of me. Also, has my personal data been used in any way to categorise me or to place me on any lists. If so please explain.

Finally, I should remind you that you have a duty to make clear the meaning of any codes or shorthand which you use in relation to my personal data.

If I do not hear from you then I will assume that this Statutory Request is satisfactory and that the one month timescale has started.

If you fail to comply with all of your obligations, I will make an immediate complaint to the Information Commissioner about your statutory breach – and without any further notice to you.

This may also lead to legal action in the County Court and a judgement will then be forwarded to the FCA.

I understand that you routinely refuse to comply with statutory disclosure requests unless your customers fill out a form giving certain details.

Please understand that I am fully aware that this is unlawful because you have sufficient evidence of my identity and my address to send me threats and demands and other personal data and so please be on notice that I find receive such a form from you then I will begin a legal action against you in the County Court for breach of statutory duty.

Yours faithfully,

[name]

Notice that this also doubles as a letter of claim.

The reason for this is as I have already explained, Npower routinely place obstacles in the way of you obtaining your data. Of course they are allowed to take reasonable steps to verify your identity but as they already have your name and your address and they are prepared to send out threats, debt collectors, – bills et cetera and other personal data to this address addressed your name there can be no doubt in their mind that you are who you say you are and that you do live at the given address.

Therefore if you receive such a form from Npower, they are acting unlawfully. Frankly I would recommend that you begin an immediate legal action against them – but that is up to you. If you are prepared to take this action then I suggest that you send the letter above which doubles as an SAR and also a warning of county court action.

It gives them sufficient notice and satisfies the pre-action protocol because I don't expect you will hear back from them before 14 days. If you are prepared to bring an initial county court action against them for breach of statutory duty then we will be extremely pleased to help you. Npower are a nasty little company and need to slap for the way that they treat their customers. It will also fire a shot across their bows.

If you prefer not to take legal action then don't make the threat – but when you receive the form you will have to decide what to do. If you do receive the form then I imagine that they will consider that the 30 days run from the date that they receive the completed form – which is also unlawful because the 30 days must run from the date of the initial request.

It's up to you. If you want to be enthusiastic about this then we will match you and enthusiasm.

BankFodder · January 31, 2019

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?492106-Npower-2-year-nightmare-Please-help

comebackjimmy · January 31, 2019

Hello,

Thanks for the reply. I will double check my correspondence and reply accurately. As long as I have a good defence I am up for giving them a fight.

BankFodder · January 31, 2019

You won't be defending – you will be attacking.

Whatever happens, send the SAR tomorrow. It is essential. The sooner you get it away – the quicker you will start to know where you stand.

comebackjimmy · January 31, 2019

I have drafted my SAR by adapting the sample above with my personal details and Npower. Will get it printed and sent by guaranteed Royal Mail tracked and signed tomorrow. They should have it by 1300hrs Monday 4th February.

I will now get on with marshalling my existing documentation so I can answer Post #2.

BankFodder · January 31, 2019

You had better also register on the free money claim online website and start understanding how it works. You can be 80% certain that you will have to issue legal proceedings.

If they don't ask you for evidence of identity – then you should start counting 30 days and expect to receive the disclosure within that time. If they don't send you the disclosure then you should begin legal proceedings then.

You should also write a separate letter to Npower and tell them that you are informally in dispute with them about this matter and that you may be taking legal proceedings in respect of it once you have examined their statutory disclosure which you have requested on the XXX date.

Make sure that letter is sent separately in a separate envelope. These people are too thick to deal with more than one subject in one letter at a time.

Surfer01 · February 1, 2019

Typical Npower. Where we lived they bill a pensioner living in a one bedroom flat for £21k for gas however she had storage heaters. They bill us for £70+ for gas however our supply had been with another company from day one. It took nearly 6 months for them tor esolve the issue and you need to get on their back nearly every day to get a resolution.

BankFodder · February 1, 2019

Typical Npower. Where we lived they bill a pensioner living in a one bedroom flat for £21k for gas however she had storage heaters. They bill us for £70+ for gas however our supply had been with another company from day one. It took nearly 6 months for them to re solve the issue and you need to get on their back nearly every day to get a resolution.

Yes it is typical of Npower – but it is also typical of their disgruntled customers not to go immediately to county court. I have no idea why not.

comebackjimmy · February 6, 2019

Hello All

A quick update to say I got the SAR request off on 1st February as per #7. Now going through my correspondence and emails and will update this thread ASAP.

BankFodder · February 6, 2019

Thanks

comebackjimmy · February 6, 2019

OK here we go with a summary of the events with backing evidence as best as I can put it together, probably very boring for most readers but........

1. I occupied the property on 15th September 2017 and notified Npower of who I was.

2. A number of letters arrived or were already in the mailbox referring first of all to a previous named occupant, also seeking payment for another address that was associated with this named occupant and finally just to the "Occ. The Occupier. Account numbers were XXXXXXXX41, and XXXXXXXX35.

3. Following my arrival further letters arrived advising "Occ. The Occupier with new account XXXXXXXX98 that they would help the account switch smoothly.

4. I quickly switched to Iresa for both fuels and had confirmation emails from them dated 28th September to that effect.

5. On 3rd October I was advised by Iresa that Npower had objected to electricity being moved and a further email on 4th saying the objection had been upheld by Npower. I contacted Npower by phone and they advised that they would not object and to tell Iresa to apply again. I did this by email to Iresa on the same day.

6. Beginning of October I received a letter in my own name from Npower with account number XXXXXXXX16, finally my own account number advising me that they would help my switch go smoothly. I had two identical letters dated 3rd and another on 5th. Also on 5th was a letter to the "Occ. The Occupier account number XXXXXXXX98 advising him that they were closing the Gas account. Also on 5th October I was advised officially of my Deemed Contract with account XXXXXXXX16.

5. 12th October I got another letter advising me that my switch would go smoothly.

6. On 16th October my first Direct Debit was taken for the full amount of both fuels as expected.

7. 30th October I got an Npower electricity bill which I presumed to be the final one and paid it 14th November.

8. I heard nothing more from Npower until February 2018 when I got a big batch of correspondence in one envelope including and (undated letter) saying there was a delay in sending the final bill, there was multiple bills in my own account number. A separate letter dated 12th February apologised for a system issue delaying their bills. I received 2 x bills in my own name, one for £79 and the other for £340 and another for “Occ the Occupier” for £48 all dated 27th Feb, this last one saying “Your amended final electricity bill”.

9. 15th march asked to pay an outstanding £16.05 gas bill!! and a reminder to pay an outstanding £324!!

10. I received reminders all of which I ignored until threatened by Court action.

11. I sent a letter of complaint by email 11th April. By mid May Npower had responded and they said they were still billing me because Iresa had not asked for the transfer of the electricity to be done. All this time I was routinely paying Iresa (provable). Therefore according to Npower I was still responsible for the electricity to them and would be required to pay (at top dollar of course).

12. I sent them some meter readings and got some more bills and I also started paying them at about £112 per month. Continued to get threatening letters and Field visit letters.

13. In the mean time I asked Iresa to transfer the electricity over and by email they advised this would be done 23rd May, Npower assuring me there would be no objection.

14. I further checked with Iresa and got a message saying they closed the ticket 30th June. I presumed that meant the switch had gone OK. On 27th July Iresa advised by email that they would stop trading.

15. The Npower bills continued to come in and escalated. I stopped paying.

16. Got Wescot chasing it in December and Field visit letters and visits (I was out in January)

So that is the sorry tale. The latest participant is Octopus energy who has taken over the account. I have disputed their billing as I don't know if I have been charged by Iresa for electricity or not. So far Octopus has not acted as they have bitten off far more than they can chew with Iresa’s cock-ups.

I take the view that I have switched to Iresa, that Npower has no clue who they are billing at my address or how much and I have two letters almost to that effect.

BankFodder · February 6, 2019

I'm away at present and will try to get my head round this over the weekend.

Send SARs to IRESA or administrators and Octopus

BankFodder · February 6, 2019

para 5 - Why did Npower object ?

did you record the call at para. 5?

BankFodder · February 7, 2019

I see that on 3 October you received two letters telling you that they hope that the switch would go smoothly. Also a similar letter on 5 October.

Then again on 12 October you received yet another letter from Npower saying that they hope that the switch would go smoothly.

Are they referring to a switch to Npower? Or are they referring to a switch away from Npower?

On 16 November a direct debit payment was made. Was this made to Npower or to Iresa?

At paragraph 11 you say that you were routinely paying Iresa. Was this for electricity?

comebackjimmy · February 7, 2019

#14 I will send SAR to Octopus, the inheritor of Iresa and also the administrator of Iresa presuming there is one.

#15 I never found out why they objected but they quickly withdrew their objection. I surmise that they were unhapy that they had not only failed to get the bill owed to them by the previous tenant but also the money he owed them for another property that they were billing him at my address. The call was not recorded.

#16 I actually have a total of 4 letters letter code SYLOBJ1. Three are dated 3rd October. One was to the "Occ Occupier", the other two (and the one on 5th October) addressed to me. all were "Sorry to see you go" letters.

16th November the direct debit payment that was made was to Iresa and was the first of my monthly payments for a fixed amount for both Gas and Electricity as per their contract.

From that point on I was paying them the contracted amount for both fuels. I continued to pay by monthly direct debit until they notified me by email that they were ceasing operations at which point I cancelled the DD.

BankFodder · February 7, 2019

You haven't said if you recorded phone call. Frankly as you have been here since 2006, I expect that you probably did but please confirm.

Also do I understand that you were paying Iresa and you have a record of this – but at the same time Npower thought you were still with them and they have been billing you for exactly the same period and you have been paying them £112 a month to reduce that debt?

I tell you that I'm having a lot of difficulty get my head around all this.

I may have to ask you to present it to us again but with the blanks filled in. For instance, I asked you a question about the objection in paragraph 5 but you seem to link that to paragraph 15.

comebackjimmy · February 7, 2019

Thanks Bankfodder. I agree it is difficult:

in your #15 you said

para 5 - Why did Npower object ?

did you record the call at para. 5?

In my #17 I said:

#15 I never found out why they objected but they quickly withdrew their objection. I surmise that they were unhapy that they had not only failed to get the bill owed to them by the previous tenant but also the money he owed them for another property that they were billing him at my address. The call was not recorded.

Also do I understand that you were paying Iresa and you have a record of this (yes emails and bank statements)

– but at the same time Npower thought you were still with them and they have been billing you for exactly the same period and you have been paying them £112 a month to reduce that debt? Yes, I paid a couple of installments of £112 towards the debt and then stopped when I went through the bills and paperwork and came to the conclusion that they had not established that I owed them anything.

I may have to ask you to present it to us again but with the blanks filled in. For instance, I asked you a question about the objection in paragraph 5 but you seem to link that to paragraph 15. when I write #15 I am referring to Post 15 of this thread, not a paragraph contained within a post. Apologies for any confusion.

I am happy to rewrite the situation again over the weekend if you think it will help, no problem.

BankFodder · February 7, 2019

Maybe it is only me who is having difficulty understanding the story. It might be helpful if you could presented again in a bullet pointed chronology – minimal narrative and clear up these little ambiguities.

Thanks.

I don't understand why you haven't recorded the call. We have been suggesting very strongly to people they should do this since 2006. You will regret it if you don't – and I expect that now you regret it.

Sometimes I think that is because we give this advice for free that people don't really take it seriously. If we charge them hundreds of pounds that I suppose they would do it. It's not a game

comebackjimmy · February 7, 2019

I will re-write the story as suggested.

As it happens I do record my calls but I do not hang on to all of them and I checked my call log and this call was not kept. Not sure how critical it is but from memory I asked why there was an objection, they said they were not objecting and Iresa should request the transfer again and that was it. At the time I did not think there was anything contentious, they had agreed to what I wanted.

I would expect to get a copy of the recording as part of the SAR response.

BankFodder · February 7, 2019

If the evidence of the call or their agreement is included in the subject access disclosure then your lack of a recording won't matter. On the other hand, if that information isn't disclosed then it would certainly have been extremely helpful to have the recording.

You should probably review your backup policy in terms of this kind of material.

the whole point of recording your calls is that you have the evidence and you store it in case you need it.

frankly I don't think that any data like these should be destroyed at the very least until there is a definite outcome and probably for several years afterwards. there are so many cloud services available now but it is extremely easy to keep that stuff without any inconvenience.

Our customer services guide makes it clear that copies should be taken and kept

comebackjimmy · February 24, 2019

OK, sorry for the delay in the response but here we go with a summary of the events with backing evidence as best as I can put it together, probably very boring for most readers but........