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Anyone else had their claim thrown out of court?


Tom_vRS
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I persued claiming back charges from Lloyds TSB. Peterborough Court asked for further evidence, which I supplied, but then threw the claim out.

 

Lloyds still coughed up - but I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only one this has happened to?

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Although my answer to your question is "No", I'm curious why your claim was thrown out of court. Any chance of enlightening us a little, please?

Jimbo 44 - always happy to help, but always willing to learn from being corrected too!!! Whilst any advice given may be based upon personal experience, please always be sure you seek guidance from a professional in the particular field.

 

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark, but a large group of professionals built the Titanic.

 

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Guest The Terminator

The only reason that I can think of that your claim was thrown out is because it was either filed late,the paperwork wasn't in order or it didn't comply with the Civil Procedure Rules.I would phone the court and ask why it was struck out.I know from working in litigation that the courts are very fussy about the paperwork.Hope thats of help.

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The only reason that I can think of that your claim was thrown out is because it was either filed late,the paperwork wasn't in order or it didn't comply with the Civil Procedure Rules.I would phone the court and ask why it was struck out.I know from working in litigation that the courts are very fussy about the paperwork.Hope thats of help.

 

 

My paperwork was absolutely spot on.

 

I was asked to provide details of why the charges were a "disproportionate penalty" and "unreasonable", which I did. Further to this I was sent a letter saying "it is ordered that the claim is struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim".

 

Which tbh, I thought was unreasonable!

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CAn you please list all the stages of your claim and post the letter explaining the decision to stike out your claim. Also anything that you might think of.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

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You are in effect contradicting yourself, if your paper work was spot on then it would have included sufficient details for justification of disproportionate charges and being unreasonable.

 

If you were to post your particulars of claim, the courts comments and your responses it may give a clue.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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You are in effect contradicting yourself, if your paper work was spot on then it would have included sufficient details for justification of disproportionate charges and being unreasonable.

 

If you were to post your particulars of claim, the courts comments and your responses it may give a clue.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

 

 

I have scanned all the docs in, but I cant upload attachments :(

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This was on my original claim form:

 

The claimant has a contract with Lloyds TSB Bank which is conducted on their standard terms and conditions. The claimant is claiming the return of the money taken by the defendant in the way of charges between 13/03/05 and 02/09/05. The banks charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para 8. and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The claimant has repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so.

 

Can you see anything that deserves the claim be struck out?

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I'm not even close to being an expert, but my impression of the letter that you've scanned is that you make quite a few suppositions about the cost of charges, etc..........

 

Maybe that's whay the judge saw his bum??

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Well the only legislation you have referred to in your reply to the court is SOGA, whereas you should also have expanded on the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para 8. and sch.2(1)(e). Nevertheless I think striking out was harsh

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Well I got paid out anyway, so not too bothered. I sucessfully claimed charges back from a total of 5 banks nearing £3500. This was the only one that I had problems with.

 

Cheers for the clarification Michael. - But as you will see from the original claim form, that information was included. :)

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Oh dear. Lloyds have started to defend claims on the basis that the particulars are "too vague" lately, which is - in most cases - rubbish. Some judges seem to be swayed by it though which is dissapointing to say the least. The only thing you should have done after the judge ordered you to elaberate was provide the documents relating to legal basis of the claim, ie the case law and UTCCR's. Also the part of the OFT statement relating to 'disguised penalties'. Did you seek advice on the forum before you sent back that reply?

 

Anyway, at least you got your settlement I suppose. Anyone else who receives a 'claim too vague' defence should refer to this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47344-lloyds-defence-claim-vague.html

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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I think if you had referred to the report of the OFT it might have made a difference to the outcome, and also some case law.

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Well I got paid out anyway
,

Yes, but you were lucky.

 

But as you will see from the original claim form, that information was included.

 

Yes, but you were specifically asked to provide further details as to why the charges were 'disproportionate penalties' and failed to do so. Your reply was very 'thin'

 

Anyway the main thing is you got your refund. The lesson for us all is to take directions from the court seriously and always answer as fully as possible

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I think if you had referred to the report of the OFT it might have made a difference to the outcome, and also some case law.

 

Quite possibly... :rubchin:

 

I only found this forum after claiming unfortunately.

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I would also think seriously about making a representation to the court. I know you won, but in the wider scheme of things its important that we contest decisions like this. The judge has basically swallowed Lloyds defence hook line and sinker. The legal basis of your claim was specified in your particularts and the time to elaberate is surely after allocation when directions are issued. Apart from anything else, small claims is supposed to be geared towards the litigant in person and imperfect claims are supposed to be tolerated and even expected.

 

Personally, I think the advice should now be to send a schedule of charges to moneyclaim immediately after filing, for attachment to the particulars. I don't know whether that would have made any difference in your case but it makes sence I think.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Ok lets try and put this into prospective, the case against Bank/CC charges is sound. It is only the actions of the claiments not following the laid down, tried and tested proceedures that is causing problems. I think we have now entered a phase were people join the site thinking that there is little or no work involved.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

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Not a lot to add really, whilst the judge may have appeared harsh, it reinforces the point that its the claimants responsibility to make their case.

 

Its good you got your money and lucky you didn't actually have to go to court. I believe that had you tried to bring the same claim again it wouldn't have been allowed.

 

I think its also worth thinking about whether moenyclaim is worthwhile for these claims? I understand the amount of info the claimant can include is very limited and its easy to see how the request for further info could lead to a repeat of this case. Using the N1 doesn't of course preclude this from happening, its just easier to put more info down.

 

FWIW Gary, i don't think the judge gave the defence any mind at all, the claimant never established a case and thats all that is needed to strike a claim out.

 

The schedule of charges had nothing to do with the claim being struck out, as Michael said the request was valid and the response was 'thin', which i think is in legal terms a generous description.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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I think its also worth thinking about whether moenyclaim is worthwhile for these claims? I understand the amount of info the claimant can include is very limited and its easy to see how the request for further info could lead to a repeat of this case. Using the N1 doesn't of course preclude this from happening, its just easier to put more info down.

 

Definately. I don't advise anyone to file on MCOL anymore and certainly not without sendind a schedule.

FWIW Gary, i don't think the judge gave the defence any mind at all, the claimant never established a case and thats all that is needed to strike a claim out.

 

We'll have to agree to differ on that then. The statutory basis for the claim was clearly set out in the POC's along with a reference to the common law. The time to further and fully substantiate the claim is surely upon the directions, when the evidance - case law, statutes, etc - is submitted. Of course the judge had the right to request that the particulars were elaberated on and thats where this claimant fell down, becouse the responce was clearly in no way adequate. I'm not denying that for one minute.

 

IMHO the judge absolutely took the defence into account before he made the order to provide further basis for the claim. He ordered exactly what Lloyds asked in their defence! I can only speak for Lloyds cases really, but this was unheard of untill they started issueing the "claim too vague" defence a few weeks ago, since which an order for further particularisation has been made in a number of cases.

 

The schedule of charges had nothing to do with the claim being struck out, as Michael said the request was valid and the response was 'thin', which i think is in legal terms a generous description.

 

Read the defence. One of the main points is that the claim does not provide a schedule. This is probably the only part of it in which they have a valid objection - as I understand it the CPR's state that the particulars must include how the value of the claim was arrived at.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Joined in Feb - well blow me down. IIRC I stumbled across this site via MSE, printed off the basic process and just took things from there. I certainly haven't been an active member, and tbh have been so laid back in claiming. I agree my evidence is somewhat laid back, but I thought all the bread and butter was there.

 

I did send a schedule to the court to accompany my MCOL claim, although IIRC this wasn't sent recorded and I have no recollection of it being aknowledged. Could the reason it was struck out be this simple?

 

What else should I have done to "establish my case" then? I really am genuinely curious!

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