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    • you need to ring northants bulk and ask for a copy of the judgement and the claimform by email pdf. it is quite usual for them to not have a copy of the claimform. so you need to record the call and ask them to read out the particulars of claim and the address it was sent too.     old wives tales , if you have a debt owing that shows on your credit file or you know exists from say the last 7yrs you should NEVER move without WRITTING to the debt owner with your new address. never run from debt which falls within the above .     all mortgage style SLC loans that were not deferred with erudio following the gov't sale in 2013 and that did not have a court claim raised within 6yrs are SB'd.   drydens simply did this because they wrote to your old address, got no response, and knew they'd get a default roboclaim CCJ where no human checks anything.   shot yourself in the foot.      
    • yep.   if all these are still owned/with the original creditors and you are not paying any powerless DCA's  then little point in any CCA requests at this stage unless any (non OD A/C's) are say pre 2000 opening.   our pro rata letters are the way to go you'll find those in the debt collection section of our library.   get any income payments on going or otherwise moved into a parachute A/c.   it is most probable that whatever you do most A/c's will be defaulted once this is done if not already. bearing in mine your wish to re mortgage or move in a future, it is most probable that the quicker you do default , the earlier a DN will be registered thus the earlier these will not show following their 6th birthday. this might involve you thinking about stopping all payments now ensuring this does happen, then resuming payment under a pro rata scheme self administered , once this happens.   just be aware that no DMP providers will ever question enforceability, should that be relevant.     
    • LL would have Absolutely no chance of getting the smart meter changed back.....
    • slow down ...read what i'm asking , stating and trying to clarify.. it all might seem useless or totally irrelevant but it's important information moving forward with the whole situation and useful in the SPC claim moving forward     there was not 2 loans - the litigated OD is not a loan but it appears from your comment here..     sorry but then you did get scammed on many fronts... they allowed you to settle the loan exploiting your confusion over thinking it was the litigated account. they didn't tell you either and they would also have been aware of your statement filed response form:   The respondent had a junior account with the Bank of Scotland since a young age.  The Bank of Scotland offered the Respondent a loan of around £2500. This Respondent serviced the loan until losing her source of income and ran into some financial difficulty resulting in defaulting in servicing the loan.   they settled for a discounted sum... why? we usually find this is because they hold no enforceable paperwork at all. or was full of charges , charges could have been the discount or it could have been due to 'a business decision' ...   but sure as eggs is eggs there is no way 1st credit would not have raised a court claim for both the OD and the loan unless there was a very good reason. they didn't that smells...badly.   OD 's are notoriously difficult to litigate upon if defended properly...but with a loan in the same claim, with enforceable paperwork, they would have almost been guaranteed to win.   it's also a shame you didn't come where before you did anything but we are where we are.   now the above might seem harsh..even petty but our posts are not only for you and your issue they are also for future readers that find us via search engines or read like threads here alerting debtors to frequent pitfalls and innocent wet myself actions many do that all these dca's will and have exploited time and time again over the last +40yrs .   i'll try and get around to properly redacting all your pdf's tonight and get them back up. but before i finish and get on with the above........the status of the claim as it stands now.   From what i can gather the claim now hinges upon proving her ex at the time settled by a discounted payment to HBOS well before the sale to Intrum and the SPC Claim.   In all honestly and with regard to your comments in your previous posts upon his character, i seriously doubt this ever happened. the disclosures from Intrum contain all the OD statements , should that have happened, it would be detailed in those.   there is little point in the claimant hiding that info as they would be in far more legal trouble should they have doctored them than insuring a mere +£1k claim win. Even 1st credit wouldn't pull such stunts.   Sorry but there is little point in requesting HBOS to attend any future hearing, nor hoping the SAR shows anything different to the statements the claimant has disclosed . That will cost you more money , and more money in terms of the claimant attending another hearing.   there is one exploitation i see. that being the mention of a default notice. the claim states:  The respondent fell into arrears under the Finance Agreement. A Default Notice was Issued by the Original Creditor .   now default notices are not issued for OD A/C's (which ties in to the possible loan confusion and scam settlement i mentioned) . This tallies with a common mistake that many DCA's, including why i keep mentioning 1st credit, which is the previous name for Intrum, made on numerous claims and was one of the reasons for the name change. To Hide that They lost many Statutory Demand and court claims over the non existence of a DN or proof of it's issuance by the OC (a DCA can't issue a DN) .. No copy of a default notice is fatal to to successful  litigation.   even though in this OD case one was not ever needed. (Poor particulars of claim showing copy and paste, and never expecting a claim to be defended but responded to by a wet themselves response , which you did by settling a loan which you believed was the claimed debt when it never was)    other than that you indicate you made an OOC F&F offer in 09-20  have you advanced this option since ?   dx
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

1987 HFC Bank loan account PPI - HSBC says NO RECORDS NOW


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HSBC now owns HFC Bank in Brighton.

I wrote to HSBC Coventry PPI claims office giving my name, DOB and precise former address, last week,

but they replied to say: no records of my account can be found after 32 years,

and that they are not legally obliged to retain documents beyond the statutory period if an account was closed.

I also opened a Loan Account in Bournemouth and fully repaid around 1983.

-- same answer from HSBC: no records.

 

I myself have retained no records whatsoever, but I am absolutely certain I had those accounts, and 70% sure there was PPI as was standard custom in those days.

 

Is this a dead end?

Should I invest in £10 requesting a SAR,

if so SAR sent to HSBC Coventry or to HFC Bank in Brighton?

Later to complain to FOS if we suspect HSBC does have records?

 

Thanks to all for sharing experience.

 

 

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Youll be extremely lucky to get any paperwork from that far back. Most banks struggle from the early 2000's, let alone from 30+ years ago.

 

SAR's are also free now, but youll likely just get a response saying "no records found".

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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we know hfc DO hold records back that far even though they had the mass shredding exercise in the 90's when PPI broke.

 

HFC still exist send them an sar to the headoffice ...its free now click sar.

 

see the IMS21 threads for more info

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Many thanks.

 

I will send SAR to HFC Bank head office.

I presume this would be HSBC, p o box 5207 in Coventry?

That is precisely the office which sent me a reply saying they have nowt records on me going back to 1980's.

 

If they do have my records but say they don't, then in response to my SAR they will have to repeat their first-time lie, but second time with legal penalties for giving a misleading SAR response.

 

Is there any precedent reported in CAG where HFC was brought to book like in my case? Many thanks for your time.

 

 

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ask for a certificate of destruction from the relevant data controller.

 

use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

there are relevant posts here whereby someone went through all this of recent and when they asked for the certs of destruction, lo and behold everything came to them.

don't believe a word they tell you.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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What a good idea, thanks.

 

On my SAR I shall additionally request a certificate affirming the date of my data destruction, exactly what data was destroyed, and authorised by whom.

 

I shall make clear if HSBC/HFC fails to unearth past data for my lawful PPI reclaim, that I then intend to make a formal request to the FOS suggesting an explicit audit of nonspecific alleged data destruction resulting in foiling of my PPI reclaim.

 

I shall make clear that when my research plus online experience gleaned from fellow consumers nationwide such as from CAG, exposes past precedents of "data not found" hurriedly replaced by "data found" when Certificate of Destruction was requested, that such HFC/HSBC conduct constitutes a pattern of cover-up designed to thwart the law of England.

 

Based on evidence and witnesses I would request a fullscale audit of HFC/HSBC refunds by FOS..

 

 

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ask for a certificate of destruction from the relevant data controller.

 

use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

there are relevant posts here whereby someone went through all this of recent and when they asked for the certs of destruction, lo and behold everything came to them.

don't believe a word they tell you.

 

Can I ask what phrases to type in the CAG search box to find the relevant posts ?Thanks very much

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Can I ask what phrases to type in the CAG search box to find the relevant posts ?Thanks very much

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486689-PPI-on-old-debts-credit-cards&highlight=hfc

 

Hi Rosequeen, have a read, but so far this thread has not shown comprehensive happy ending. I searched for keyword HFC. I have yet to receive SAR response from HSBC re HFC old old account.

 

 

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or

hfc ppi destruction

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486689-PPI-on-old-debts-credit-cards&highlight=hfc

 

Hi Rosequeen, have a read, but so far this thread has not shown comprehensive happy ending. I searched for keyword HFC. I have yet to receive SAR response from HSBC re HFC old old account.

 

 

Hi Mistermind, thanks for your response. I'll try it later.

 

Going back to your thread about getting old data from HFC/HSBC. Based on personal experience I think you'll struggle because this bank and several others do not admit to holding transaction history further back than 2001. I don't believe any of them, because a few years ago a certain bank was fined when the FCA discovered they were misleading FOS and held customer records from before 2000.

 

When this review was published I requested my credit card statements for a closed account from 1996 and they sent all copies, having previously said they weren't available.

 

I wonder if the FCA conducted reviews of all the other major banks might they find similar practices?

 

I've still got three outstanding PPI complaints that cannot proceed because the lenders say they cannot find the details. So unless something changes before August this year, mine and many other customers will not have their complaints investigated. I really hope you get a positive response to your SAR. Please let us know on here

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claims already in the pipeline are not subject to the aug 2019 cut off.

its for new claims.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Big Fish,

 

Latest posting by you was 6 years ago. In intervening time has there occurred any happy ending, or just happier Such a ? HFC evidently hide behind the non-availability of evidence, then when pressed persistently they dribble out data like giving blood. A group submission could be organised resulting in a letter signed by multiple aggrieved CAG users, to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour on the part of HFC to evade legitimate PPI refunds.

 

Such a joint complaint detailing the experience of multiple injured parties will carry more credibility with IOC, FOS, FCA. HSBC/HFC CEO can be told in no uncertain terms this communal experience of HFC victims can be made available to the national press, i.e. to HSBC customers worldwide.

 

As for DD's I suspect your bank is likely to have retained info on beneficiary of DD. Once banks have captured such data and stored them on disk, they usually retain same for a very very long time, because retention is much simler than destruction.

 

 

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My new posting on long-running HFC tussle thread:

:

Hi Big Fish,

 

Latest posting by you was 6 yearsicon ago. In intervening time has there occurred any happy ending, or just happier Such a ? HFC evidently hide behind the non-availability of evidence, then when pressed persistently they dribble out data like giving blood. A group submission could be organised resulting in a letter signed by multiple aggrieved CAG users, to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour on the part of HFC to evade legitimate PPI refunds.

 

Such a joint complaint detailing the experience of multiple injured parties will carry more credibility with IOC, fosicon, FCA. HSBC/HFC CEO can be told in no uncertain terms this communal experience of HFC victims can be made available to the national press, i.e. to HSBC customers worldwide.

 

As for DD's I suspect your bank is likely to have retained info on beneficiary of DD. Once banks have captured such data and stored them on disk, they usually retain same for a very very long time, because retention is much simler than destruction.

 

Barclays Bank refunded my £900 PPI premiums plus interest etc 2 weeks after only one typed letter from me supplying all details. Albeit that was from 2003-2007, No attempt to wriggle, obfuscate, evade. Well done Barclaycard. Shame on HFC.

 

If a number of other CAG users feel they have reached runaround deadend stalemate on HFC refusing to refund, I would consider organising a group-signed letter submission for enhanced credibility and high profile. Be assured when I compose a letter marshalling all the facts it will read like a mailed fist inside a velvet glove, the reader will be left in no doubt that settling is cheaper than fighting.

 

My own PPI mis-selling has always been unarguable, as throughout I was self-employed with no salary, and I never tried to claim against PPI..

Edited by dx100uk
merge

 

 

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My SAR to HFC is pending response from HFC. When HFC come back to me as in other cases with zero I shall find myself with nothing to lose, my PPI refund being hopelessly dead and buried. .

 

At the point in time I shall be content to collate together depositions from others in the same boat. Their similar stories

detailing obstruction and evasion will expose a pattern of HFC/HSBC behaviour deplored by FCA/IOC/FOS..

 

Harvey Weinstein was a rich and powerful mogul,. But when a large number of his "me too" victims broke cover and exposed similar stories this exposed an infamous modus operandi which in the glare of full disclosure brought down said rich and powerful mogul. In a free country public opinion should not be underestimated. There so many of us.

 

We little people. We can stand together. We shall be heard.

 

 

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The problem with trying to start a pressure group is that our stories are anecdotal, we've got no proof, other than a sneaking suspicion, that banks do have and are concealing data from customers. If you took it to court a judge would probably say it's hearsay. I'm hoping the FCA will instruct the banks to settle all their outstanding PPI complaints before the deadline.

 

I had a HFC complaint about five years ago, for a loan I took out in 1996. It was one of the few lenders I had records for, so I sent in a copy of my loan agreement but they wrote back saying they needed to see evidence of my loan payments which I managed to obtain in a SAR to my bank and received proof in the form of microfiche transaction lists.

HFC accepted this and refunded all the ppi premiums I had paid.

 

When I asked if they had any details of the loan which I paid off in 2004, they said no. But like I said in my previous post, since that other bank got fined for lying to FOS and customers in 2015, I don't believe what any bank says now.

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can I suggest that instead of patting each other backs upon how unfair this all is

posting on threads that are 6yrs old. Randomly hoping you might get a lead.

suggesting that some 'mass consumer complaint' might get you somewhere …

 

to concentrate on researching the issues you are trying to deal with...

 

HFC PPI was underwritten by Hamilton life.

 

they were bought up by Aviva.

 

it might pay you to poke them an sar as they were and still are in existence and regulated

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?473350-Aviva-as-Underwriter-PPI-Endeavour-Personal-Finance-HSBC&p=4984041#post4984041

 

post 11

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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is this post directed at Mistermind because I certainly wasn't suggesting a "mass consumer complaint"?

 

If anything I was trying to point out how futile it could be.

I also did not resurrect this thread.

 

I received an email and simply responded not knowing it started six years ago, is this against CAG forum rules?

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It is understandable that the small fry do not have storage space and computer records and fiche which are routine in financial installations.

 

If documented cases where HFC first siad no they have no records, then later were forced into a U-turn, yes they did have records, this pattern of behaviour constitutes blatant evasion of PPI refund.

 

They would not be lying just to aggrieved customers seeking redress, they would be defying FCA, Information Directorate and BOS.

 

 

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welcome along to big wide world of being an ex hfc customer.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 months later...

All SARs achieved nothing, and HSBC confirmed in writing a second time that after a careful search they found nothing, and could I provide them with my account number?

 

No I cannot from 30 years back. 

July comes in 2 days, and August 19, 2019 deadline arrives in 50 days time. 

 

PPI Claims Management shops say they have no idea how to break this deadlock. 

PPI repayment becauses of the elapse of 30 years is likely to exceed £1000, maybe £2000. 

This looks like a lost cause. 

 

If anyone can help me get a result 

 

 

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Join the club, as I got no further with my PPI complaints from the late 1980's/early 1990's either.  

 

From the sounds of it you've done everything possible to trace your old HFC account.  Although, you could try failed SAR and take them to small claims for non compliance, lots of posters have gone down this route with some success when lenders have suddenly found the missing data just before the court date but these posters probably had the account number. 

 

Banks say they cannot search their archives without the correct reference number.  I'm no expert on microfiche so perhaps someone on here can explain how data is located in microfiche.  Is it by date or account number?

 

 

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there is no set standard.

could be by anything.

 

got my a/c no. from old bank statements that the dd was from

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Microfiche is a regular security copy recording vast files onto compact film and stored away, likely to be organised by date.  Having given them my correctly-spelled name, my precise address at the time account was open, and date of birth, I would be surprised if they cannot trace my account number at least, and from that the financial records.  SAR response allows for 7 weeks(?), past August 19 deadline.  Very unlikely SAR complaint will get far.

 

If they say they cannot even find record of my name, hard to fault them for not complying with SAR.  If another consumer went through the same wild goose chase, then was able to prove that HSBC was lying and that records were there and find-able, I could quote chapter and verse, and probably persuade FOS to be on side, and thus I could put the fear of God into HSBC. 

 

For such assistance -- just to shine a light and successfully goad HSBC into admission, for that I would be more than happy to pay 20% finders fee.  50-day deadline will soon run out, and HSBC will get away with it.

 

 

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Thanks for the idea, but in 1987/8 I always paid in by cash as HFC office was in town centre where I lived, in Brighton. 

Queens Road office to be precise, just outside BR station, but I gather HFC no longer has an office in Brighton. 

Internet screens say there is, but Googled info is often years out of date. 

 

Although my account had no further activities after I paid up leaving balance zero, I never closed this revolving-credit account. 

 

It is possible my account stayed dormant with HFC for years before they eventually closed it was they would be entitled to do. 

If only Experian consumer credit records go back to 1988, but they do not. 

 

 

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