Arrow/RestonsClaimform - Old Egg Loan - CCJ - Now AOE request

[barafear799]

Hello,

 

As seems to be the case with a few people on here and other forums,

 

I have recently received court papers from Arrow Global on what I assumed was a written off (or statute barred) debt.

 

I am now aware of the standard template and answers I need to give

- but I did just have a quick "pre question"

 

- it would appear that I made a "rogue" payment on this account (not to Arrow - but to a different DCA) in 2012

 

- I had a Standing Order set up on an old bank account

- forgot about it

- and happened to have enough money in account to pay it

- other than that -

the previous payments were made in 2010

 

- I know this is still within the 6 year period

- however, it does seem a bit confusing as to "last payment/contact" concerning a debt

 

- I thought I'd read somewhere it was more a case of when a payment was "due" rather than when an actual payment was made?

 

Also - I'm assuming if I made an agreement to repay in instalments with a DCA, then new "due dates" would have been set.

 

I really haven't had any correspondence about this debt for several years - it has not (and is still not) showed up on my noddle credit report.

 

The claim is for a hefty sum of money (more than £10k!) - and I really am in no position to pay it off - even over 5 years.

 

I would appreciate some advice to come to my best case scenario.

 

I will post up the answers to the questions in the next day or so when I get a chance.

 

Many thanks in advance for any help.

thanks

b799

[Guest]

to start can these be answered;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**%282-Viewing%29-nbsp

 

if you have made a payment within the last 6 years, then bar may be difficult to argue (a payment after the deemed cause wld reset the bar clock).

[barafear799]

thanks

- I will complete said questions tomorrow hopefully

- currently not got the papers in front of me.

 

 

Have been searching for info

- bank statements for payments made, emails for any contact with previous DCA

- it does seem Arrow Global like to ruin people's Christmas by sending court papers in December

- sure it's at least the 2nd time it's happened with me (maybe even 3).

[dx100uk]

so when did you last pay the egg loan or was it a card?

 

check your credit file

 

or ring Canadian square and ask.

[barafear799]

Ok - thanks for the replies so far - sorry - if an Admin could update my thread title - not sure what happened? think I must have pushed a wrong button - Should read "Arrow Global Court Claim form sent for old EGG "debt" - possibly SB'd?"

 

Ok - the last response mentioned ringing Canadian Square - sorry I don't know what that means? Can someone explain please?

 

Now the Q&A I need to do:

 

Name of the Claimant ? ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED

Date of issue – 11th DEC 2015

 

Date to submit defence = XX Seems like I have until 30th Dec to acknowledge - and then until 13th Jan to submit defence?

yes if exclude inc xmas day [court holiday] due by 4pm 13th jan

What is the claim for –

 

Claimant claims payment of overdue balance due from defendant under a contract between defendant and Egg dated "2003", and assigned to claimant in Feb 2013.

 

Then it gives an account number (presumably the orig Egg a/c)? It was for a loan.

 

What is the value of the claim? £11k

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? Loan

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? Before.

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser (Arrow)

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Can't remember to be honest

- I've had dealings with Arrow on another old debt

- so it's often difficult to know which debt any letter from Arrow refers to.

I know this sounds bad....

...but I'm guessing it's not uncommon in the situation I'm in.

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Same answer as above. Highly likely I did receive something from Egg to the extent of me being in default of the original agreement (not keeping up repayments)

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

I would need to double check - would these be from Egg or Arrow (or any other DCA)?

I do remember receiving something that stated what my outstanding balance was but clearly stated it

was not a demand for payment and I did not need to do anything.

 

Why did you cease payments? Financial difficulties.

 

What was the date of your last payment? Well - as per my original post - possibly made one payment in 2012.

I'm a bit confused because I had an Egg Loan and an Egg CC

- had two separate SO set up on an old bank account

- cannot be sure which was which

- but based on the amounts,

I believe a payment was made in 2012.

Prior to that, there were a few odd payments made by SO in 2010.

These payments were to a DCA acting on behalf of Egg.

I've found some letters from that same DCA dated 2008 and 2007

- also have some emails dated around the same time

- but nothing for any later dates

- I think I started missing the agreed payments with the DCA around 2008-09

- but it seems I made the odd payment here and there when I could.

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Not really.

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan?

Not sure whether I notified Egg - probably did - from memory (it was a long time ago)

I think they handed it over to a DCA pretty quickly - so I did arrange plans with at least one DCA working on behalf of Egg.

 

This is what I read elsewhere:

Under the Limitation Act, time starts to run from the 'cause of action'.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts,

is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments.

This will usually be after one or two missed payments.

 

in my case - this would have happened in 2005 (I think)

- so although I made lots of payments between 2005-2010 (to DCAs)

and then another "rogue" payment in 2012 - does the following not apply to me?

 

If you have made payments towards a debt where the limitation period of six years has already gone by,

and no court action has already been taken, the debt is probably unenforceable.

 

So - if 2005 is the "Cause of action date" - then 6 years would be 2011.

So - yes I have made payments - but since no court action was taken by 2011 - am I ok?

 

I know what you're saying about a payment resets the clock

- but this advice (National Debtline website) doesn't seem to support that

- then again, I might just be reading it the way I want to read it

 

 

- perhaps what it is saying is :

 

2005 was the cause date - and 2011 is the final date

- so perhaps if I made no payments between 2005-2011,

but then for one reason or another I made a few payments in 2012

- then I received the court papers in 2015

- then the debt is already SB

- and even though I made the payments the clock was not reset

- because it had stopped already....

..in 2011?

[dx100uk]

go ack [AOS] the claim on mcol website

defend all

leave juris unticked.

 

get a CCA Request

 

get a CPR 31:14 from the legal section of the library running to the sols [who are?]

 

read the FULL CCA/CPR threads fully first

don't sign anything.

..............

 

thread title is ok as is

slightly changed to enable you and others to search help easily.

.......

 

Canadian square if you search 'egg Canadian square' will be the lot that hold the details about the loan.

 

go ring them and simply ask last payment date

or

p'haps see if noddle CRA listed below holds the data

but Canadian sq would be best.

 

dx

 

barafear799 said:

This is what I read elsewhere:

Under the Limitation Act, time starts to run from the 'cause of action'.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts,

is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments.

This will usually be after one or two missed payments.

 

So in my case - this would have happened in 2005 (I think)

- so although I made lots of payments between 2005-2010 (to DCAs)

and then another "rogue" payment in 2012 - does the following not apply to me?

 

If you have made payments towards a debt where the limitation period of six years has already gone by,

and no court action has already been taken, the debt is probably unenforceable.

 

So - if 2005 is the "Cause of action date" - then 6 years would be 2011.

So - yes I have made payments - but since no court action was taken by 2011 - am I ok?

 

I know what you're saying about a payment resets the clock

- but this advice (National Debtline website) doesn't seem to support that

- then again, I might just be reading it the way I want to read it - perhaps what it is saying is :

 

Ok 2005 was the cause date - and 2011 is the final date

- so perhaps if I made no payments between 2005-2011,

but then for one reason or another I made a few payments in 2012

- then I received the court papers in 2015

- then the debt is already SB

- and even though I made the payments the clock was not reset

- because it had stopped already....

..in 2011?

 

 

strange logic....

but the debt IS NOT STATUTE BARRED...

 

 

dx

[barafear799]

DX> thanks for the advice.

I have checked Noddle - debt is not showing on there - although - from memory it might have been there a few months back and has now gone......

 

I will try Canadian Square.

[dx100uk]

is this all the PoC says please?

 

 

Claimant claims payment of overdue balance due from defendant under a contract between defendant and Egg dated "2003", and assigned to claimant in Feb 2013.

 

Then it gives an account number (presumably the orig Egg a/c)? It was for a loan.

 

 

important we have the exact wording please

[barafear799]

Yes, wording is as I have written.

I now know it is not SB so I would be grateful for suggestions on which to base a defence?

 

Thanks again.

Sorry, it does state the exact date of orig agreement,

I changed for anonymity

[dx100uk]

defence not due till - 4pm 13th jan

make sure you've done everything In post 8

then its time to read other like court threads

involving your players

 

dx

[Guest]

barafear

re yr post #7 re SB.

yes, the debtline is saying that if something is already barred, then a payment after it being barred shouldn't unbar/reset it.

generally, any legitimate payment within a 6 year period from the start of the clock wld reset the clock, and so on. but, once barred thats it.

in yr case (#5), it seems you were making the payments up to 09, then odd payments thereafter, then one in 10 and the last one being in 12?

[barafear799]

Ok, AOS completed.

CCA and CPR 31:14 requests sent off to the solicitors (who are RESTONS).

Is it just a case of sitting tight and enjoying Christmas now then?

 

Thank you for all your advice and assistance to date.

 

I noticed whilst I was on MCOL

the last claim against me (which I assumed was Arrow - but was actually AKTIV Kapital - are they the same company?)

is still sitting on my account - do I need to ask to get it set aside?

 

I haven't heard any more from it - and it is just under 2 years old.

 

Thanks again.

[dx100uk]

I hope the CCA went to the claimant as my post says not restons?....

 

there is no link between AK [Now the PRA GRoup] and arrows.

 

other than not missing your defence deadline

you now need to read up on other like threads with the same players in this forum

and the successes forum from this one.

 

dx

[barafear799]

Tried to do some research as suggested but struggling to find any resolutions

- did find something very similar from a user called rebeccalouise in June 2014 - but I could not see how that case turned out.

 

as mentioned earlier

- I have sent off the CAA and CPR14 requests

- and am waiting patiently

- but as per usual for DCAs, they seem to deliberately target December so that postal delays are at their worst!!!

I still have a couple of weeks to formulate a defence

- and I will continue to search other threads for something to help

- but would still appreciate any guidance.

 

Ultimately, I'm guessing I would like to base a case around the unreasonableness of the DCAs in chasing my debt

- i.e. I've had a search through some old letters to see what I got

- I do appear to have had a LBA from Restons (dated in mid-November)

- prior to that however, I could not find anything chasing me for the debt or offering any sort of instalment repayment plan from Arrow global

- although I did get a letter from a company called "Debt Managers (or management) Ltd" - or something similar.

 

I'm finding it rather gauling that a DCA can just pull out a debt from so far back (albeit not Statue barred)

and "jump to court action" in the shortest possible time without making reasonable attempts to contact me/discuss anything

- and at no stage was any proof of the outstanding debt ever produced

- no statement of account etc.etc.

 

It is so long ago, I cannot honestly remember what the original loan amount was

- I couldn't find any email from Egg

- found emails from Egg with links to the account area on their website

- obviously that is no good now.

 

I've also fallen into the "over £10k" court fees issue as well

- so that's added on more than £600 onto my supposed debt!!

 

If this does go to court

- or even if I settle out of court,

given my available disposable income,

I can see this taking more than 20 years to repay!!

 

Anyway - back to reading - thanks again for all the advice to date.

[Guest]

the court process shld require them to produce/disclose what docs they rely on.

 

they will yet have to decide to continue after submission of yr defence.

 

when/if it comes to DQ,

you cld ask for it to be allocated to small claims as is only 1k over and cld be determined small claims.

if you want the poss costs benefits of such. J will decide. though there could be mediation prior.

[dx100uk]

doesn't have to be an egg loan thread

any credit card or loan holding/no paperwork defence will do.

 

 

post it up here first mind

[barafear799]

No response to either of my two requests (CCA and CPR) - only 2 days to file a defence?

Will my defence simply be based on this lack of response? Will it be considered to be a holding or embarrassed defence (are they one and the same)?

[dx100uk]

as post 19

 

 

no such thing as an emb defence, old hat now

 

 

something like

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?438186-Claim-form-Cabot-for-Old-Lloyds-TSB-Loan

 

post 37

[Guest]

No response to either of my two requests (CCA and CPR) - only 2 days to file a defence?

Will my defence simply be based on this lack of response? Will it be considered to be a holding or embarrassed defence (are they one and the same)?

you sent the cca request to the claimant, and the cpr request to the sols?

also mention that, and their failure to comply (partic re the cca request), in yr defence. see the eg's. edit to suit.

[barafear799]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the responses and the examples referred to. They did look like the type of defence I assumed would be the way to go.

 

So, here is my defence, edited for personal info.

 

Can you tell me how it looks - and suggest any amendments if necessary. Many thanks once again.

 

Particulars of Claim:

 

1.The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a Contract between the Defendant(s) and Egg dated on or about "MMM" "DD" 2003.

 

2. and assigned to the Claimant on "MMM" "DD" 2013

 

3. Particulars a/c no - ************

 

Date ITEM VALUE

 

18/11/2015 Default Balance "xxxxx.xx"

Post Refrl Cr NIL

TOTAL "xxxxx.xx"

 

Proposed Defence

 

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted and accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Egg. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant who has not responded to my request for further information.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is denied as I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served in 2013 by either the claimant or Egg.

 

4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant;

the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of credit agreement/assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31.14, and remains in default of my section 77 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 77 request, copies of the documents referred to within the Claimant’s particulars to establish what the claim is for.

To date the Claimant has failed to comply to my section 77 request and their solicitors, Restons, have failed to respond to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

6. As per Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82 A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

Ok, the bits with " " marks are simply me changing personal info.

One question I did have - do I need to replace the words "The Defendant" with my name or is it ok to leave as is?

 

Many thanks

B799

[dx100uk]

leave as is

 

 

dx

[barafear799]

Many thanks. Defence submitted online.

Sit back and wait.

[barafear799]

Didn't have to wait too long.

Yesterday received a response from Arrow

- letter was dated 5th Jan, but post mark was 12th Jan

- postage was franked at 39p (is that 2nd class?)

- short and sweet response - plus returned my Postal Order.

 

"Thanks for the letter; we acknowledge your request for documentation pursuant to the CCA1974."

"We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However, we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course.

We confirm that all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the documents. We return the payment of £1.00"

 

So - will the court case now be stayed then?

Is that the best I can hope for? Or can I get it "struck out"? (is that the correct terminology?)

[AndyOrch]

" So - will the court case now be stayed then? Is that the best I can hope for? Or can I get it "struck out"? (is that the correct terminology?) "

 

Stayed anyway...irrespective to their response...no you cant get it struck out.

 

Andy

[barafear799]

Had a couple of letters from Restons inviting me to withdraw my defence.

 

Ignored the first letter as I was still waiting for documents from Arrow.

 

However second letter received does now contain a copy of the signed credit agreement from 2003.

 

So, should I be withdrawing my defence now?