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    • I would say so yes but ofcourse only in the years the charged it not running till today.
    • please complete this:     and scan up the PCN bothsides to one multipage pdf read upload   dx  
    • Must satisfy POFA if they want to ground Keeper Liability, so no Keeper liability, their RoboClaims always try to sue both as if they can jointly and severally, but the Courts should be looking at the was Driver or Keeper and chuck the claim out for being vague, but they don't  They might if POFA fails and they know they are onto a loser, might have a last gasp and try to rely on Elliott v Loake a criminal case so not applicable to a Civil claim, and CPS v AJH Films, again not applicable as is about employer/employee, they will do this to try to get someone to cough up before a case they know they are going to lose to salvage what they have already paid ou to go to court.  I would delete the  line   As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline as is my right to name the driver (s) at this time"  That is an oblique reference to the duty to name driver in a Criminal case, and is the Elloitt v Loake scenario.   Others will have better ideas, but lloking decent.
    • Good morning request sent off yesterday to moriarty law  but today got this load of tosh  Combine Jul 17, 2019.pdf
    • In response to your question, I have a copy of the title deeds showing ownership and also the leases. No idea what to do with that info though!   I should be most grateful if you would review the attached brief draft defence on page 1. The page 2 thoughts are a work in progress.   The POFA point is weak in my opinion, but having read a lot of analysis of the requirements, I haven't managed to come up with anything beefy.   I should be grateful for any ideas on that, as it seems like a failure to follow procedure would be a strong defence.   Also it asks for the driver's details on the PCN and then the claim states the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver, but I don't really understand whether there's a point of defence there.    DRAFT DEFENCE 1)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS had a contract with the landowner (The West London Property Corporation Ltd.) in August 2015, and therefore failed to show either a legitimate interest in controlling parking at the Berkeley Precinct, or the authorisation to make charges on their own behalf, for any overstay in the carpark, including for first-time offenders (relevant to Tesco lease). (no response to CPR 31.14 request delivered and signed for at 10.32a.m. on 9th July) 2)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS obtained a planning permit from the Sheffield Planning Department under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 (also requested in my CPR 31.14 letter) and that there were prominent signs in existence at that time, showing clearly the terms and conditions for parking and the charge payable for any breach. Therefore, the three elements of offer, acceptance and consideration required for a contract were not met, and no contract existed. 3)      The claimant failed to issue the PCN in the timescale required under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for keeper liability and, allowing for the 2 day delivery time afforded to Royal Mail, it arrived a day later than the 14 day deadline. The parking company has not met the keeper liability requirements and therefore keeper liability does not apply. The parking company can therefore only pursue the driver. As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline, as is my right, to provide the name of the driver(s) at the time. As the parking company have neither named the driver(s) nor provided any evidence as to who the driver(s) were, I submit I am not liable to any charge.    
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HXCPM/Gladstones ANPR PCN Claimform - didnt buy ticket within 10 mins - Vulcans Lane CP, Workington, Cumbria

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Hi, new to the forum, thanks in advance.

 

The PCN came though the post, ANPR capture, no ticket.

 

Date of infringement 08/12/2018.

NTK was issued on 12/12/2019 for £60. I've been working away, so effectively ignored it.

I received a Keeper Liability Notice on 16/01/2019 but I was still away and have just returned and opened it (28/01/2019).

Schedule 4 Protections of freedoms Act is mentioned.

I have made no contact with them.

The parking company is HX Carpark Management Ltd

The car park address is Vulcans Lane Car Park, Vulcans Lane, Workington, Cumbria CA14 2BP

They operate under the Independent Appeals Service.

 

The charge is for failing to purchase a ticket within 10 minutes of arriving at the car park. I was working at the theatre near by and went to get change from the theatre shop. It took longer than 10 minutes. I'm trying to find the payment ticket. I think my employer has it. I'm chasing him now.

 

Any advice on the best course of action would be appreciated. Today 28/01/19 is the deadline for the £100 payment, according to their rules.

 

 

Thanks.

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scan up the NTK Both sides to one multipage pdf

read upload.

 

pers id ignore them

there is a minimum of 10mins grace period and no stated maximum

 

thread title updated


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upload hidden

ref no showing

thread title updated nothing to do with 10mins grace period


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Thanks. I’ll re upload the letters with the references removed.

 

I don’t understand why it has nothing to do with the 10 minute grace period. I thought the charge was because I'd taken longer than 10 minutes after arrival to pay for parking. It was dark and raining heavily and I didn’t read the small print. I struggled to find change within 10 minutes.

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no you stayed for 7hrs..didnt pay ….but don't worry about that for now


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This location is fairly local to my business. If you're not from the area I'm happy to get some photos of signs etc next time I nip to the bank.

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Thanks for the photo offer Mrs O'Frog. I’m from Chester so that would be appreciated. Regarding the charge, I did pay for my stay in full and some. The issue was I took longer than 10 minutes from arrival to paying. Am I missing something?

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Mrs O'Frog, I can see the roadside sign on Google Street and it looks like theres a 10 minute warning there. If possible, a shot of the sign at the pay area would be useful. Thanks very much.

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Wow, that is a good trek away! No problem, I need to nip through later this week so I'll take some snaps of signs in and around the area.

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no the issue is you failed to purchase a ticket for the +4hrs you parked there

the 10mins is totally immaterial.

 

have you checked they have planning permission for their signs and ANPR cameras/poles?

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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Hi dx100uk. Thanks for following this. I'm not sure how to check if they have planning permission.

 

To clarify my query, I paid for parking for the time required. I didn't pay as soon as I arrived as I didn't have change.

I went and got change from the theatre near by but it took more than 10 minutes.

 

I returned to the car park, entered my registration, paid the full amount, put my ticket on the dashboard, did my job and left.

 

The only thing I can see I contravened was the 10 minute grace period to pay at the beginning.

 

The ANPR saw me arrive, and the machine accepted my payment after the 10 minute grace period, but with no warning that I had broken a rule.

The charge doesn't state that I didn't pay, just that I didn't pay within the first ten minutes. I definitely paid.

parkcharge.pdf

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I can't see POFA 2012 quoted on the NtK, but I'll leave that for the experts to confirm.

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aha so I wasn't right or was I in the 1st place...:lol:

 

its atleast 10mins back to what I said.

they cant do anything.

 

thanks for clarifying..i wondered why they made that comment on the NTK..how stupid..


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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No problem. It seems so petty that it's almost hard to believe. But they're just out to get money I suppose. So in your opinion, just sit tight?

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oh yes

and sadly 99% of the population think they are fines and must be paid and obeyed..


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

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ANPR used to capture the vehicle details, and NOK received over a month after the event - right?

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hey so it is...so they think the same as I did .. ANPR capture times outside of 14 days..good spot

cant see the tree for the snow sometimes..[-6 where I am now]


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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ImagePlay,

 

Your full name is still showing on the PCN you attached to Post#12 (where it says "Dear Mr ...").

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Sorry, I'll try again with the images.!

 

The dates are

 

8/12/18 Date of parking

 

12/12/18 First letter sent

 

14/01/19 Second letter sent

parkcharge.pdf

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I'm reading it as the original PCN/Ntk was 12/12 (i.e. 4 days after the event) and it was just the notice of transfer of liability to keeper that arrived a month later? Still, I don't think the PCN/Ntk was POFA compliant anyway so they can still go whistle.

 

Edit - ah yes, our posts crossed - that's what I thought.

Edited by Mrs O'Frog
crossed posts

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So if there's no PoFA 2012 mentioned in the paperwork, then it's non compliant, therefore invalid? And now time has passed so too late for them anyway?

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It's not invalid, it just means that they cannot transfer liability from the driver to the keeper. So as long as you never have & never will tell them who was driving (and you're under no obligation to do so) they can't hold the keeper liable. It won't stop them trying, indeed their second letter claiming they have transferred liability is a crock. I'm not sure how litigious these people are but I'm sure you'll have a nice little pile of letters to come from various debt collectors etc. Just ignore them but keep them safely filed and come back if you ever receive a letter before action/claim.

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so they are claiming you didnt pay within the 10 minute grace period but that for them is not a contractual issue, they ahve to allow this period as a minimum to let you read the signs etc and go and get change.

 

The point is you did pay the prescribed fee for the period your vehicle was there. This menas that they suffered no loss and courts wont be happy to sit through an hour listening to someon explaining how it is proper they bill you £100 for paying them the correct amount as agreed at the outset just because they dont offer an alternative method of controlling access to the site ( barrier and timed ticket for example). The parking cos' always want it both ways because they make more money from their enforcement of suspect rules then they ever do from cars actually parking. In many cases it is their only source of icome so thery will do and say anything to screw money out of people.

 

Lets see the signage at the entrance and what offer was made via the blurb on the ticket machine and we can take it from there. So far HXP are in a weak position but hopefully we can find somehting that kills them off

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos

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