Parking Eye ANPR PCN - overstay - westgate retail park, wakefield **CANCELLED BY PE**

[stjuninho]

I have read the stickys and I see that a lot has changed since last time I did this.

 

ParkingEye have recorded me overstaying in a shopping estate car park and have issued me with an £85 fine (reduced in paid quickly).

 

I am wondering if anyone has had success by providing evidence that they were genuinely in the shop for the time period shown, busily purchasing away!

Essentially I was in costa and can show from my bank statements that I bought a lot of coffees whilst I was there working (oblivious as I was to the time restriction).

 

Is this worth appealing about?

My thinking is that the shop did not suffer a loss as a result of my breaching their contract?

Or is that naive thinking.

 

Some help would be very welcome

 

1 Date of the infringement 12.1.19

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 17.1.18

 

3 Date received something like 22.1.19

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Y

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] not yet

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? parkingeye

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] westgate retail park, wakefield

[dx100uk]

can you show us where they use the word fine please?

 

thread title updated for clarity of your issue

[stjuninho]

'fine' was my word. It's a "Parking Charge"

[dx100uk]

only the police/council can fine you for parking

its a speculative invoice because you broke some imaginary contract by parking there longer than you should.

 

can you scan up the NTK both side to ONE multipage PDF please

read upload

 

have

[stjuninho]

I attach the PCN (I hope)

Parking Charge Notice-redacted-compressed.pdf

Edited January 26, 2019 by dx100uk
merge

[Gick]

For accuracy only a court can fine you. The council can issue a Penalty Charge Notice and the Police a Fixed Penalty Charge.

[stjuninho]

Thank you, do you have any advice to help me with my question?

[renegadeimp]

Read other threads in the PPC forum. Your issue is no different to theirs.

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you for reading the Stickies first and yes things have changed over the years. Parking Eye however have failed to keep up and still make mistakes that render their tickets unenforceable in Court.

First they need planning permission from the Council planning dept.under the Town and Country [advertisements] Regulations to erect their signs and ANPR cameras. Then they need to have signs that are capable of forming a contract with the motorist. So if you could please post up photos of their signs [close enough that we can read them] [including any rules on a ticket machine] and their positions in the car park that would be a great help.

[stjuninho]

Thanks I will try to get back there and take that photo. Very helpful to know that there may be this route.

 

In the meantime, my original question was whether it is helpful to have proof that you were in the shop (in this instance, a coffee shop) still spending money during the period of overstay. I have that proof.

 

My understanding was (happy to be corrected) was that a loss must have occurred, or reasonably expected to have occurred, for a court to say that the breach of contract should lead to them recuperating those losses. Has anyone, to your knowledge, successfully appealed on the grounds that they were in the shop the entire time (with proof to that effect) spending money!

 

Or is that irrelevant.

 

Thank you

[FTMDave]

In my limited knowledge the PPCs have unfortunately had some success in defending their charges in some - but certainly not all - cases. But that just closes off one route, there are still many other ways of fighting them.

 

As a first port of call, why not get on to Costa? Point out that due to your "overstay" Costa actually made more money so why are they trying to drive away genuine customers by allowing fleecers to send out these £85 demands? Quickly escalate any complaint to area manager and CEO level if you get nowhere.

 

That's just one idea.

 

Do Costa have their own car park or are cars parked in a general shopping centre car park?

[FTMDave]

Plus, according to the PPC, how long were you allowed to stay? And how long was your "overstay"? There is the matter of grace periods and how long parking was allowed for in the Westfield planning permission.

[stjuninho]

Thank you this is very helpful -

 

I'll get on to Costa. The Costa outlet is a standalone unit on a shopping estate, but the whole estate parking is shared with all units.

 

Accoring to the PCN, I stayed for 4 hours and 15 mins in there whilst the limit is 3 hours. Had no idea about the planning permission stipulations, but I suspect that is longer than a grace period

 

Thanks again for this input

[FTMDave]

Yes, get on to Costa.

 

Ignore what I wrote about grace periods (only relevant to short overstays) and planning permission for parking times (sometimes they make up ridiculously short limits like 45 minutes or an hour). Sorry, I should have looked at the PCN.

 

As lookinforinfo wrote, pix of signage would be useful, as would getting on to the Council to see if they have planning permission for their rubbish cameras. PPCs are not very good at obeying the law.

[stjuninho]

Thank you.

 

If anyone knew the answer as to whether a court would look at evidence that I was busily buying Mochas during the time of the PCN, and so arguably Costa did not incur any loss, then I would be interested in the answer.

 

I thought there had to be a loss incurred or reasonably expected to have incurred. But I may be wrong.

 

Thanks again, folks.

[renegadeimp]

Why are you talking about court? That could be months/years away if it ever even happens.

[honeybee13]

Thank you.

 

If anyone knew the answer as to whether a court would look at evidence that I was busily buying Mochas during the time of the PCN, and so arguably Costa did not incur any loss, then I would be interested in the answer.

 

I thought there had to be a loss incurred or reasonably expected to have incurred. But I may be wrong.

 

Thanks again, folks.

 

If this is ever an issue, I would say it isn't about Costa losing money, it's the car park owner. Unless that's Costa of course.

 

But I agree with the Imp, you're a long way from that.

 

HB

[stjuninho]

It would help me to make an appeal if I knew what they'd have to show and demonstrate at court. I'd feel more confident, and knowledgeable. Imp - don't feel you have to reply to my posts if you think I'm asking stupid questions!

 

Honeybee - thanks for that, useful.

[honeybee13]

When you say appeal, do you mean to their ticket or to a court case?

 

HB

[dx100uk]

going by other threads for the same car park here I would not bother appealing.

nothing to do with costa either

 

unless the land owner has signed a contract with this PPC, which looking at the number of differing PPC that have managed that area I doubt it very much, no-one has suffered any loss.

 

text on and the positioning of signs are your next task,

 

also check the local councils planning webportal to see if PE have planning permission for their signs and ANPR poles/cameras, again I doubt it.

[renegadeimp]

It would help me to make an appeal if I knew what they'd have to show and demonstrate at court. I'd feel more confident, and knowledgeable. Imp - don't feel you have to reply to my posts if you think I'm asking stupid questions!

 

Honeybee - thanks for that, useful.

 

You dont need to demonstrate anything. There is no court case right now so STOP worrying. If there was a court case, it would be a very long time away. Youre worrying about stuff that will either never happen or if it does, you can stop it in its tracks in the preclaim period.

[stjuninho]

HB - I meant appeal the ticket with parkingeye. Though fruitless perhaps, as dx says. I'll get that photo of signage, and I'll try and track down the planning permission they have.

[honeybee13]

We don't often recommend to appeal because frequently it's fruitless. It might be worth waiting for ericsbrother the guru or one or two of the others to comment as to whether it's worth appealing on this one.

 

HB

[lookinforinfo]

Stjuninho, Parking Eye to put it nicely are a bunch of crooks. All they want is your money regardless of the Law. At the moment you are protected by the Protection of Freedoms Act [POFA} as they don't know who the driver is, just you the keeper. If you appeal you are quite likely to reveal the fact that you were the driver.

[ericsbrother]

First thing I would do is get on to Costa head office (no point talking to branch, they have no say) and assuming you paid by card tell them that you are more than happy to reverse the payment for their goods as you didnt agree to pay £100 extra for being a good customer.

 

In reality it isnt their fault but they should get on to their landlord and kick up an almighty fuss to get this cancelled. By hurting Costa they will take an interest where normally they wash their hands of the entire thing.

 

As said above, Westgate has been on our radar before but with another parking co so you should do a bit of forward planning and get pictures of the sigsn and cameras to see what they cover and see who else has signs etc there. None of the parking co's can claim that you have agreed to anything if you read the wrong signs and placing even the smallest doubt over this will get you a long way..

 

My opinion is that POPLA wont agree with you regarding clarity of signage (they dont go and have a look) so unlikely to succeed there but going for route one and getting the client of PE to cancel has a decent chance of success esp if Costs dotn ahve a mechanism for arranging a longer stay. That would apply to cinemas and places like Ikea where it is impossible to actually do what you need to do within the arbitrary time limit.

Edited January 28, 2019 by honeybee13
Paras, typos