Dismissal after accident

[18million]

Hi all.

 

Long story short

- I had an accident at work, they admitted liability.

I have been off on long term sick with PTSD and now called in for interview by HR.

They want me to finish due to long absence.

OH doctor has put on one report that the disabilty act may apply to my case.

 

I've made a claim via my union which is ongoing.

 

I really don't want to lose my job, but I'm not well enough to go back.

I'm trying to claim sick benefits but it's very hard going and haven't received anything yet.

SSP and pay have now finished so I'm starting to panic.

I've finally been seen by a CPN this last month who is putting a care plan together for me.

 

It is a large organisation so I'm not being missed as such.

 

I accept they can no longer pay me but can they dismiss me?

I'm concerned as it's a great job plus now, with my sick record and mental health problem I'm never going to find a good job again.

 

Can anyone help please?

Edited January 22, 2019 by dx100uk
spacing

[renegadeimp]

Go through your union. How long have you been off on long term sick leave? What was the accident?

 

I'm concerned as it's a great job plus now, with my sick record and mental health problem I'm never going to find a good job again.

 

Please dont think like that. It is definitely not true.

[king12345]

As this is a large organisation, has the union looked at negotiating a temporary or permanent redeployment to a role you could do?

Peraphs even from home on reduced hours until you're better.

[18million]

Thanks, both, for the replies. Apologies for the delay, I got my password wrong and was locked out.

 

CPN and psychologist both say it's going to take a lot of medication and possibly 2-3 years to get me fit enough to go back. My accident was 4 years ago. I struggled to stay in work for the first 3 years, but it was making me ill. Now I'm told I should have had help from the start but it's taken 2 years to be seen.

 

I'm rural, not a lot of support here, travel 80 miles round for work. It's not the kid of job I could do at home.

 

I'm on the waiting list for something called EDMR/EMDR? but it's a long wait.

 

My accident wasn't too severe - a few broken bones - but the circumstances were terrifying. I think that's why I've reacted so badly mentally. I keep having flashbacks that can be triggered by the smallest sudden noises and nightmares where I'm in some kind of warped version of the accident, where I'm left to die. Every night from a few months after the accident.

 

I can't get over how my mind is reacting like this. Some medication has helped a bit but then I'm told I'm on the highest does and it wears off, some has made me worse.

 

They tried me on reduced hours but it was close to where the accident was and it was making me worse. The place is big enough I could get a job working elsewhere but it's not been suggested.

 

Just writing this has left me exhausted and has given me a flashback that's felt like a punch in the guts. I won't be on til later this evening, but will appreciate any help.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Thank you for the extra information. Are you saying this was a work-related accident?

 

HB

[18million]

Honeybee13 - yes, work-related. They've admitted liability and I've made a claim against them which is ongoing.

[honeybee13]

Thank you, that could help people to advise you.

 

HB

[king12345]

First thing you need to do is to see a counsellor.

They really help, much more than medications.

I know a few ex-army who were traumatised and suffering from ptsd.

After counselling they recovered or are recovering.

Secondly, tell your union that they need to start negotiating a suitable redeployment, they had 4 years, what are they waiting for???

[18million]

Thanks, King12345. I'm already seeing a counsellor plus I have a CPN. These have only been seen very recently, though. I'm hoping the work insurance is going to pay for more counselling and EMDR(?) with a counsellor who works with ex forces.

 

Will the union be able to help me keep my job (but in a different area) do you think? They're already paying for a solicitor to pursue my injury claim. My rep didn't seem to know much but is fairly new and covering a sick colleague.

[king12345]

Your union is not paying for the solicitor.

They will be paid by the company as they have already admitted liability.

Also, your union subscription pays for their services, believe me nobody gives you anything because they are nice.

If your local reps in 4 years haven't suggested redeployment, you need to go a step up, functional level.

When someone is unable to do their job because of an accident on duty, the very first thing the union should negotiate is redeployment on similar salary.

If they won't do it it's most likely because of internal politics.

I mean, I rub your back, you rub mine and everybody is happy.

I being the union and you being the management.

This happens everywhere, so don't be surprised.

You talk about a minor incident in which you broke a few bones.

In my books breaking bones is not a small incident and from what you say it could have been much worse.

I bet my right hand that health and safety measures were (and possibly still are) non existent and this caus red your accident.

Health and safety legislations are quite strict and someone's head could easily roll, even after 4 years.

These are a couple of leverage points that the union should have used from the beginning.

Get them out of the pub and insist that they start representing you properly, forgetting their political agenda and side deals.

[ericsbrother]

One problem with workplace union reps is knowing when they are out of their depth and thus knowing it is tiem to call in the regional or national officers to take the matter up. in your case a delay in doing this has probably made the situation look less serious than it really was and all of the help you wnat would be paid for as part of a settlement for your claim. Now the employer is happy to drag this out as it saves them money in the short term but also does them a favour as far as damage limitation and their public image goes. your union needss to get moving and possibly activly use embarrassment as a tool for getting your claim to the fore and then at least you wont be broke whilst the rest of this is sorted out. In the long temr you might not have a job there but you shouldnt be suffering financially until you get back on your feet.

[18million]

Thanks, both.

 

H&S weren't involved. They asked me to say I was "working from home" while I was off recovering so they didn't have to report it.

 

They told me to do a job without the right equipment and when I asked for equipment I was told I didn't need it and they'd take responsibilty - which they've admitted to the insurance company.

 

I don't think I'll ever be able to go back to that job, but I don't want to lose my job there and the place is big enough I'm pretty sure they could move me if they wanted to.

 

Trouble is, I don't think I'm ready to go back. Saw psychiatrist earlier who told me changing meds to help me sleep and lift my depression is going to take the best part of a year to get right. The psychologist I've seen and made headway with treatment is expensive so I'm hoping the compensation will cover his sessions. I'm comfortable with her and have trust in her.

 

I'm living off my partner at the moment as my pay has stopped and trying to get benefits is taking me a lot longer than expected,but he's okay with it for a bit (though things have been rocky while I've not been myself). I will get a settlement within a few months though if they sack me, it'll only last me a few years at the most.

 

I'm gutted as it was one of the best paid jobs for someone like me who's basically uneducated apart from apprenticeship. I'm too young to retire and my pension will suffer as I haven't built up a huge pot due to not having worked there long (9 years). Where I worked before didn't have a pension plus I'd taken a bit of time off for kids.

 

I'm never going to find a job like this again unless I move hundreds of miles away. I just wish they'd keep a place open for my until I'm recovered - this might take a year or two as every time I've tried going back so far it's made me worse (though I think a move to a different area would be much easier for me but no one's suggested it).

 

I'm exhausted now! Thanks for the help.

[king12345]

As you said, you can't do the job anymore, so redeployment is the way to go.

What's frustrating but not surprising is that they tried to cover their tracks so to avoid possible trouble on health and safety ground, and you helped them.

This is a massive leverage point that behind closed doors the union should use in your favour.

Falsifying records is a very serious matter and h&s breaches are as serious if not more.

Time to get someone higher up in the union to help you with redeployment.

On a different note, in my experience medications are effective only in some cases, but nowadays they are prescribed virtually to anyone a little bit under pressure.

The side effects and dependency of these medications usually outweigh the benefits, so you need to find a consultant willing to work with you to take you back to what you used to be.

Being on medications for life is not the solution, trust me.

[18million]

Thanks King.

 

I'll contact the union tomorrow and see if they can help. I didn't want to rock the boat by reporting them about H&S breach as after my accident, tools and safety equipment arrived the very next day so I'm pretty confident that others won't be in this position.

 

Nothing I can do about the management who made me do the job without equipment despite me asking 2 different managers and an engineer - they'll never change. It's a "them and us" attitude sadly.

 

I've found a psychologist and PTSD expert that I've been assessed with and am comfortable with through the case. It's just a matter for insurance now to see if they'll pay for me to see them when the case is over. I've seen a few NHS counsellors, both of whom tried to get me to "talk to the wall" which was just off-putting and too Shirley Valentine for me. I came away from those appointments feeling worse than went I went in so won't go back.

 

I'm happy with meds for the moment as I need all the help I can get to get me through the case, applying for benefits and to fight for my job right now. If pills get me a better night sleep than the few hours I'm currently getting with the bloody awful nightmares, I need to take them. I understand they're not a life solution, but as a temporary crutch I'm happy.

 

I'll push the union about getting my job changed to a different part of the plant or at least a year without pay with my job kept open. I need to recover without pushing myself to go back like I have been and then making myself worse in the process.

 

Thank you.

[ScarletPimpernel]

First thing you need to do is to see a counsellor.

They really help, much more than medications.

I know a few ex-army who were traumatised and suffering from ptsd.

After counselling they recovered or are recovering.

 

 

 

PTSD is a complex mental health disorder which is often co-morbid with other conditions. It is not simple to treat, and one size certainly does not fit all. It’s often necessary to try several therapies before finding one that works. Talking therapies are often helpful, but again there are many different approaches and what works for one person may not work for another. I know of very few cases where medication has not been required at some time, usually in conjunction with a talking therapy.

 

EMDR - eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing - has been found to be effective in some PTSD cases. But it doesn’t work for everyone. PTSD recovery is a long haul, often difficult, and every sufferers’ experience will be unique.

 

Telling people they need counselling and not medication isn’t helpful. There are many medications that are useful; the only people able to determine whether they are necessary or not are the treating clinicians, who have not only the proper training, but also the full clinical picture that enables them to make informed and appropriate prescribing decisions.

 

My job includes training people, including Armed Forces and NHS staff, about PTSD.

[king12345]

To be clear, I didn't mean that a no medication policy applies to all cases of ptsd.

However, the op has been taking them for 4 years with little results.

Possibly it's time to have a review with a consultant who's not keen on gushing people out of their office holding a prescription.

Sorry if it was not clear from the beginning.

[ericsbrother]

so who in the union are you thinking of getting in touch with? As siad, if the branch officers are slow then you get on to head office to get a regional or national officer to visit you.

 

Also I would be thinking about making a suitable statement via the solicitors to the HSE about all of this.

If i was the manager of a group that had broken the law in this regard and then lied to cover it up I would have sacked the lot of them (and you). What you have said doesnt leave anyone in a good light. expect to be pointed at as a co-conspiratorby your employer as they try and reduce what they have to pay out

Edited January 28, 2019 by honeybee13
Paras, typos

[18million]

Ericsbrother - I was just going to ring their helpline and see what they say.

 

Unlike my managers, who frankly have quite shameful behaviour ("I won't name the person who writes a note and slips it under my door naming those encouraging unofficial overtime/refusing to work with incorrect equipment/refuses to work through breaks" or whatever it is the managers have a bugbear about on any particular day - just a teeny example), you seem like a decent human being.

 

However, I don't really think getting HSE involved at this point will be helpful to anyone. The tools were replaced the following day, the company has admitted liability. I'd have been sacked for refusing to do the job tools or not anyway. At least I've managed to keep my job a little longer and been a still-living example to others that may have found themselves in the same position (hopefully, managers won't be so quick to ask someone to do that job without tools in future, though). Asking me to say I was working from home was apparently to just keep their internal figures looking good so calling HSE in now is a bit like shutting the door after the horse has gone. I'm pretty sure the managers have already covered their backsides with a great excuse should I have decided to report.

 

King - you're right as I have been shunted from pillar to post seeing psychiatrists who can't wait to take me off the meds the previous three had me on and put me on the newest flavour of the week drug. reading the reports of two I've seen, I honestly think they've sent the wrong one out! They seem to have mixed me up with other patients they must have seen on the same day or something. Unbelievable. Still, some have worked better than others and the way I'm feeling I'll try anything.

 

ScarletP - thanks for understanding the long haul and difficult bit and that one size definitely does not fit all whe it comes to treatments. It's a shame you couldn't have trained most of the people I've seen.

 

As I've gone and am going through different stages, I'm realising that medication is just the tip of the iceberg and that long haul really is a very long haul with multiple setbacks and days where if I manage to get out of bed, I don't really want to be here. If it wasn't for my partner I probably wouldn't be. We both just want to be able to start living again. With help from the right people I'm sure I'll get better, though if you'd asked me last week (and probably again in another few weeks), I wouldn't be so sure.

 

I never thought I'd be like this - it's been a nightmare. Thanks for letting me vent and giving me help.

[ScarletPimpernel]

18million - I know quite a few people who describe their PTSD journey in much the same way as you. But they’ve made it through, and you will too. Family support is crucial.

 

All of them had difficult times during their recovery, setbacks and dark moments, but now have fulfilling lives - even though they aren’t doing the same jobs as they were before.

 

There are some useful resources at Mind, Rethink and Combat Stress. You might also like to look on YouTube for talks by Michelle Partington about her experience. I know Michelle, and she’s amazing - you’ll see that you aren’t alone.

[18million]

Thanks, ScarletP. I'll check those out.

 

I have little family support, apart from my OH, but I've always been an optimistic person so even though I'm in a pretty crappy place in my head at the moment, I do keep hoping I'll recover.