Abbey - A New Argument? ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[Akaysha]

Link wasn't working for me either, i have reported it to the administrator as it requests.

[Jane Austen]

Hi Jim and others

 

I have received the same letter so I'm not giving them any longer. They have gone well over 40 days. They have had LBA with estimated charges so next week it's court filing time.

[terryuk73]

The blackmail argument got me thinking, and it does seem to fit the offence very well

 

*************************************************************

S21 Theft Act 1968

 

A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another

or with intent to cause loss to another,

he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces.

*************************************************************

 

This is a very serious offence and could see the writer being imprisoned for upto 14 years. Needs to be reported at your local police station not to the ICO.

 

I would seriously consider writing back informing the writer that you intend to report the matter to the police, as blackmail If you do, I would suggest taking a copy of S21 with you to your local nick, and if they try to tell you its a civil matter, get them to explain why it doesnt fit the offence (they wont be able to)

[JimTheGent]

@terryuk That is a really excellent point. @nnelson. With regards to your case, don't give them any more time. It seems they only take people seriously once you have been forced to spend money on Court Fees. If you go that far then they know you are not messing around. Wish you the best of luck. Jim

[Jane Austen]

Thanks very much for that Jim. I'm writing to tell them first that I'm not giving any more time and I'll be at the court sometime this week. Did you see Stephen Hone on BBC Breakfast this morning. What he and the man from Which had to say was very encouraging.

[JimTheGent]

I never saw the program but if you have a link to anywhere it can be downloaded I would love to see it. If not, what was said? I would be interested to know. thx Jim

[Jane Austen]

Go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/default.stm

 

press the button - WATCH BBC NEWS IN VIDEO

 

It's under a sub- heading ALSO IN BUSINESS and it is entitled 'In the Red'.

 

It seems to be all of what was on this morning.

[Movingon]

In a way, it's nice that they didn't reveal our ammunition too much; but in another way it's a shame that the law that we're using to fight, and the BS about the "service charge" wasn't brought out clearly.

 

I'm just glad that this issue is getting more and more air-time. Like the WHICH? guy, I just want the banks to change; and I don't want them to try and penalise us by removing free banking (which would give their current position the lie).

[JimTheGent]

Just a quick update on progress everyone. I filed the claim against Abbey on 18/05/2006. Theye were deemed to have been served 5 days after this date (23/05/2006). They then had until 6 June 2006 to acknowledge the claim. The claim was acknowledged today (2 June 2006) so they now have a 28 days from the date when they were served with the claim (23/05/2006) to reply. This means they need to file a defence by 28/06/2006.

 

Hopefully they will settle before then - otherwise off to court we go.

[JimTheGent]

Another update. I got a letter this morning from Piper Rudnick GrayCary requesting I submit a copy of the evidence I will be submitting to the Court regarding my Claim so they can prepare their defence.

 

Any ideas whether I should just email the spreadsheet with the interest calculating daily to them or should I print it out and post it recorded delivery?

 

My claim was for £1165.74 plus costs and interest but I calculated the interest up to the date I made the claim and included it in the amount. At that date the interest came to £421.45 but obviously this increases and it is clear in the court papers I am claiming interest at 8% compounded daily.

 

What should be my next step?

[Movingon]

Is this a request under the Civil Procedure Rules part 18? If so, it doesn't apply to the Small Claims Track. Although your case has not yet been allocated to a track, as it is under £5000 it is almost certain to be allocated to the Small Claims track and therefore part 18 requests will not apply.

 

You have a choice; you can either reply in the vein I suggest above, or you can answer their part 18 - there is a thread where one of the mods has actually done this and therefore can give guidance but I don't know enough about it to help you effectively.

[JimTheGent]

There is no reference to any legalities whatsoever. Do you know where the thread is or which mod has replied as per your last message?

 

Here is a transcript of the letter from their lawyers:

NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT - CLAIM NO 6QZ31860

 

We act for Abbey National plc in this matter. Please note that any further correspondence should be addressed to us at this office.

 

We are in the process of reviewing this claim and preparing a Bank's response. A defence will be filed in due course.

 

In the meantime. we note that you have claimed the sum of £1,165.74 in respect of charges that you say have been made on your Abbey account but have provided no details as to how this sum is calculated. You have also claimed a further £421.45 by way of interest, but again have provided no details of how this sum is calculated.

 

As you will appreciate, you will need to produce evidence to the Court of both amounts and this information should have been supplied by you when you filed your claim. We should be grateful if you would provide details to us as soon as possible.

 

We should add that if you have any doubts or concerns regarding your legal position, you should consult a solicitor or Citizen's Advice Bureau

 

yours faithfully

 

DLA Piper

 

DLA PIPER RUDNICK GRAY CARY UK LLP

[NeilP]

They are refering to the 'particularisation' (their favourite word at the moment!) of the charges.

 

What you need to give them is a breakdown of the claim listing what the charge was for (ie Failed DD), amount of the charge and the date incurred. State that under section 60 of the County Court Act you are furthermore claiming interest on each and everyone of these charges at the rate of 8% pa.

 

Hope this helps

 

Neil.

[Seminole]

Yes, that letter is the flipside of their total disregard for the Subject Access provisions of the Data Protection Act. Please could scan it and send it through to [email protected].

 

Oh, and just in case Abbey or their solicitors are reading this- you can squirm guys but you can't hide

[joneshousehold]

We had exactly the same letter from DPA Piper etc. When we posted about it Dave suggested we reply that all the information had been given to Abbey which it has in the preliminary letter and the letter before action. That wasn't a full schedule but the letters clearly say all charges from xxx date to xxx date. This was accepted by DPA and we have now received a letter offering 50% back. It doesn't seem to make much difference to them whether you show the calculations in detail or not.

 

Have a look at our thread Another Claim here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1889

[Spiceskull]

As will be learned from Whizzkid's thread, the best thing to do is to send the particularised breakdown with your claim/N1. If you use MCOL then send a copy to the bank and also to the court, quoting your name, the bank's name and the claim number.

 

As long as the court has a record of the claim and breakdown being submitted together, the judge will be harsh to the barristers representing Abbey when they claim that they need a particularised claim...just ask Sophie Mallinckrodt...

[JimTheGent]

So am I correct in assuming the general concensus then is not to send the claim breakdown to Abbeys solicitors because they already have the particulars in the letters before action and the complaints letters. Instead to send a copy to the bank and also a copy to the Court?

 

What difference is there between sending a copy to the bank and sending a copy to their solicitors who have stated all correspondence should now be addressed to them?

 

At what point do I send a copy of the particulars (i.e. the claim spreadsheet) to the court and to who do I send it (I am using MCO).

 

Copy of the letter scanned and sent to [email protected] as requested.

[Seminole]

If matters have reached the stage at which solicitors are involved, it would probably be best to send them the particulars, if you are going to send them at all. If you send them directly to Abbey, they will simply pass them on.

 

I'm not absolutely sure about the answer to your second question but I think you could send them to the court at any time and ask that they be filed with your claim. If you do this, however, you really should also send a copy of them to the other side. The doubt in my mind is whether this amounts to an amendment to the particulars of claim which has a specific process. Perhaps one of the other mods could clarify this.

[JimTheGent]

Here is an update. I have sent a letter to DLA Piper today (via email and a hard copy in the post) responding to their request for information. I have based the letter on the comments in this and other threads - so thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

 

Here is the letter I sent:

Your reference:

 

Thank you for your letter dated 1 June 2006 relating to my action against Abbey Bank - Claim No 6QZ31860. I note you are acting on behalf of Abbey National plc in this matter and require claim particulars as stated in your letter.

 

Quite frankly I am surprised Abbey National plc are prepared to instruct you to represent them without providing you with all the material facts. All the details and claim particulars are at their disposal both in the statements of my account and in the correspondence between me and Abbey National plc when I followed their complaints procedure, which clearly states the claim is for repayment of Bank Charges between June 2000 and 1st September 2002. I would have expected Abbey National plc to have provided you with copies of this documentation upon instructing you to act for them, since all this information is at your client’s disposal.

 

For your convenience I have detailed the particulars of the claim below.

 

I am claiming repayment of Bank Charges taken from my account by your client between June 2000 and 1st September 2002, plus I am furthermore claiming interest on each of these charges at the rate of 8% per annum under section 60 of the County Court Act, plus court costs and fees for bringing this action. I feel it best to advise you, the interest is compounding daily and was calculated at £421.45 at the date of filing the claim with the court. Interest is being added to this amount every day, so it is in your client’s interest to bring this matter to a speedy resolution.

 

The bank charges I have claimed are clearly detailed on my bank statements which have been provided to me by your client and are of course available to you via your client. Furthermore, my letter to Abbey National plc on 05 April 2006, followed by a letter to Jackie Hammond in Abbey National Banking Servicing on 21 April 2006, where I followed their complaints procedure, clearly detail the dates for these charges and how they have been calculated.

 

I will of course be filing a detailed itemised breakdown with the Court in due course and in good time prior to any confirmed Court date in order to fulfill the requirements by the Court for evidence purposes in compliance with the Subject Access provisions of the Data Protection Act.

 

Whilst I am fully prepared to pursue this matter to fruition via the Courts, I do believe it is in all of our interests if we can bring this matter to a conclusion by negotiating a suitably acceptable resolution. I am prepared to accept settlement of this claim providing your client is prepared to pay 100% of the claim plus interest and costs without prejudice by 19 June 2006.

 

I trust this letter resolves your enquiry. Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Jim The Gent

[Movingon]

I believe it's section 69 of the County Courts Act, but apart from that, great letter!

[Jane Austen]

Way to go!!!!!

[Seminole]

Good letter.

 

I'm not sure what the following means but I don't think it has any effect:

 

I will of course be filing a detailed itemised breakdown with the Court in due course and in good time prior to any confirmed Court date in order to fulfill the requirements by the Court for evidence purposes in compliance with the Subject Access provisions of the Data Protection Act.

 

Also I would take the view that it is better for them to offer a settlement although I like the way you put it to them. You should take the attitude that you are so sure of your case that you are happy for the matter to go in front of a judge and it's for them to offer to surrender.

[JimTheGent]

Hi Guys

 

Here is a quick update. I received a letter today from the Northampton Court transferring the case to my local court. There is a form which needs to be filled in and a request I send £100 with the form if the claim is for over £1500. Haven't I already paid this when I paid the £120 via the Moneyclaim website? DLA Piper have filed a defence.

 

At the same time as this arrived I got an offer letter for 50% of the balance from DLA Piper. What should I do now? I will be happy to accept 100% of the balance not 50% plus interest and charges - any ideas on how I should word my response? It seems they ignored my last offer of settlement at 100%

 

Should I send this letter again slightly altered to suit the circumstances?

 

Thoughts please

 

Thx

 

Jim

[JimTheGent]

Hi Karnevil

 

Thanks for the response. I have emailed a reply and will be sending a hard copy in the post today. Here is what I sent:

 

Dear Mr Cook

 

Re: Claim Number: 6QZ31860

 

I confirm receipt of your defence to my claim against your client, Abbey National Plc. With reference to your enclosed letter dated 16 June 2006 offerring 50% of the balance making a total of £913.60, I am rejecting your Clients offer of 50% payment as I believe this is still not reflective of their true costs, therefore, I will continue with my claim for £1,165.74 plus interest of £421.45, plus Court fees of £120. Please also be aware interest is being added at the rate of of 8% per annum on the charges which I am entitled to claim under section 69 County Courts Act 1984.

 

Whilst I am fully prepared to pursue this matter to fruition via the Courts, I do believe it is in all of our interests if we can bring this matter to a conclusion by negotiating a suitably acceptable resolution. I am prepared to accept settlement of this claim providing your client is prepared to pay 100% of the claim plus interest and costs without prejudice by 30 June 2006.

 

If Abbey are prepared to settle this matter with a 100% payment as well as all relevant costs I will withdraw my claim.

 

yours faithfully

[lipscombe]

Good Luck Jim, love your letters, will probably need to copy certain elements of them myself if you have no objections!!

 

I filed a claim on 7th June (6qz36252) so expecting replies like you had and need to know how to reply. I have to wait til 26th June so not long now!!

 

Scared but excited, will go to court if I have to, cannot come this far and not put up a fight right to the bitter end!

 

Have a feeling in my waters your money will come through before going to court - keep us posted. This thread is getting as exciting as whizzkids x x