Idem Claim Form - halifax / Lloyds TSB credit cards***Claim Discontinued***

[AndyOrch]

Then its worthless....so back to your initial post and defence...I will draft you something accordingly later.

[yodabug]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks a million.

 

I've managed to tidy the scan up a bit, just in case you want to have a closer look.

 

Thanks

HalifaxCCATidied.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Post your full defence here and I will draft the paragraph in response to the section 78 requests.

 

Many thanks for your donation.

[yodabug]

Thanks Andy

 

Should have first draft ready for tomorrow night. Its not due until next Friday so no immediate rush.

 

Have a nice evening.

[yodabug]

Good morning all.

 

Defence time.

 

Particulars Of Claim ( for reference purposes only )

 

1 ) Agreements between halifax/ Lloyds TSB and the cardholder ( D )

 

2 ) The balance of the accounts were legally assigned to the Claimant ( C ) 17/06/2015

 

3 ) D accrued balance *** A/C 1 Credit Card o/s bal £4500 A/C 2 Credit card o/s Bal £4500

 

4 ) D defaulted on payments

 

5 ) C issued Formal Demand requested payment dated 03/01/2019

 

6 ) Amount now due from D £9000

 

 

************************* Defence *********************************************

 

 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (pre action protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim(s)

pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 1 and 3 are noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Halifax / LloydsTSB . I am unaware of what alleged debt(s) the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim, and have therefore sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request and a CPR 31.14 request.

 

4. Paragraph 4 is denied. I am unaware of any service of a Default Notice (s) pursuant to section 87 of the consumer credit

Act 1974. I have sought verification from the claimant regarding this matter and they have been unable to comply.

 

5. Paragraph 2 is noted but denied as I have never been served with a Notice of Assignment(s) pursuant to sec 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. ( unsure of this one -- they have last week provided copies of copies of 2 NOA’s in response to my CPR31.14 - but they would not have had my home address at this point in 2015 as was paying through payplan ( DMC ) ) - So they sent these copy letters in response to my CPR Request after issuing the claim ))

 

6.Paragraph 5 is noted ( not sure of this one - ) ( i have a letter detailing the two accounts and outstanding balances - to quote the letter ‘ unless proposals to clear your account balance are received within seven days from the date of this letter, we will issue proceedings without further recourse to you ‘

 

7. Paragraph 6 is denied for the reasons stated in my point 2.

 

8.It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice;

© show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

9. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

10. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit

Act 1974.

 

 

11. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

********* AndyOrch is kindly drafting a paragraph in response to the section 78 requests and the returns that have been sent back. **********

 

As always thanks a million, so much appreciated.

[AndyOrch]

5 ) C issued Formal Demand requested payment dated 03/01/2019

 

6.Paragraph 5 is noted ( not sure of this one - ) ( i have a letter detailing the two accounts and outstanding balances - to quote the letter ‘ unless proposals to clear your account balance are received within seven days from the date of this letter, we will issue proceedings without further recourse to you ‘

 

 

Did this letter look like the following ....LBA?

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481827-The-Pre-Action-Protocol-for-Debt-Claims-is-made-by-the-Master-of-the-Rolls-as-Head-of-Civil-Justice-1st-Oct-2017

[yodabug]

Hi Andy

 

This is the letter they are referring too.

 

 

 

Thanks

FDLetter.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Fine...so not a PAP questionnaire.

[yodabug]

Hi Andy No ....BUT

 

I did receive this letter a while back - ONLY referencing the Lloyds account and NOT Halifax.

 

I thought it was just a begging letter - at the time i was primarily looking for LETTER BEFORE CLAIM and nothing else.- so didnt pay close attention to it.

It could of had attached a questionnaire to the back of it - but this has been mislaid. ??

But they sent a bunch of statements with it.

 

With this in mind Should I remove the paragraph about PAP protocol ?

 

Thanks

OldIdem.pdf

[AndyOrch]

I will reword it

[yodabug]

Thanks Andy much appreciated

[yodabug]

Hi Andy

 

 

Andy - hope your good - Just wondering if you had a chance to have a look and tweak my defence ? ( MCOL submit date is Friday ) ? and I maybe premature posting this……

 

 

Thanks in advance !

[AndyOrch]

That gives us 4 days yet...

 

I will take a look this evening.

[yodabug]

Thanks a mil Andy !

[AndyOrch]

2. The Claimant has partially complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (pre action protocol) but failed to serve a letter of claim(s) for both alleged agreements

pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 1 and 3 are noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Halifax / LloydsTSB . I am unaware of what alleged debt(s) the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim, and have therefore sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request and a CPR 31.14 request.

 

In response the claimant has disclosed an application form for Lloyd's which is Illegible and incomplete therefore not enforceable pursuant to sec 61 .1 a/b/c

And in response to Halifax an application form 1 page...which refers you to sign and return the agreement....barley legible along with a reconstituted version which is void of address of the creditor and void of account number or date to which it supposedly refers to.

 

Both which are pre April 2007 credit applications and therefore unenforceable pursuant to sections 61.1 and 65.1 and sections 127.1.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

You need to clarify the following....

 

5. Paragraph 2 is noted but denied as I have never been served with a Notice of Assignment(s) pursuant to sec 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. ( unsure of this one -- they have last week provided copies of copies of 2 NOA’s in response to my CPR31.14 - but they would not have had my home address at this point in 2015 as was paying through payplan ( DMC ) ) - So they sent these copy letters in response to my CPR Request after issuing the claim ))

 

Surely Payplan and the OC had your address ?

[yodabug]

Hi Andy

 

Just made a wee donation.

 

Thanks very much - much appreciated !

 

Yes - payplan would of have my address - and the OC ( via payplan ) I was just miffed that I had never seen them.

 

Any thoughts on the following bit ? Just leave this as it is I think.

 

5 ) C issued Formal Demand requested payment dated 03/01/2019

 

6.Paragraph 5 is noted

 

Thanks again

[AndyOrch]

6.Paragraph 5 is noted but I refer you to my point 2 and the claimants none compliance of paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (pre action protocol).The claimant is not in a position to issue demands.

[yodabug]

Hi Andy

 

thats brilliant.

 

Thanks ever so much !

[yodabug]

Morning Andy

 

Should I Delete the highlighted text in red as I have noticed that the address of the creditor is in fact on page 1 of the reconstituted agreement ( that is my fault as I had blacked it out !!! )

 

In response the claimant has disclosed an application form for Lloyd’s which is Illegible and incomplete therefore not enforceable pursuant to sec 61 .1 a/b/c

And in response to Halifax an application form 1 page...which refers you to sign and return the agreement....barley legible along with a reconstituted version which is void of address of the creditor and void of any account number or date to which it supposedly refers to.

 

Both which are pre April 2007 credit applications and therefore unenforceable pursuant to sections 61.1 and 65.1 and sections 127.1.

 

*************

 

Also Is it worth mentioning as per DX post #35 that the terms and conditions are dated from Oct 08 ?

 

t&c's are from oct 08 no tick box done and I bet you hidden details are in a differing type font...all bogroll.

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Edit the address issue to read...

 

And in response to my section 78 request for the Halifax agreement an application form 1 page...which refers you to sign and return the agreement....barley legible along with a reconstituted version which is void of an account number or date to which it supposedly refers to.

[yodabug]

Thanks Andy

[yodabug]

Hi Andy - could you please give this the once over. Would be hugely appreciated. The only 'sticking point ' - is

 

5. Paragraph 2 is noted. ( where I had never seen the NOA's until this week - just leave it like this ??).

 

Like to say a massive thanks to everyone that has helped me so far.

 

***************** FINAL DEFENCE EDIT ****************

 

Particulars Of Claim ( for reference purposes only )

 

1 ) Agreements between halifax / Lloyds TSB and the cardholder ( D )

 

2 ) The balance of the accounts were legally assigned to the Claimant ( C ) 17/06/2015

 

3 ) D accrued balance *** A/C 1 Credit Card o/s bal £4500 A/C 2 Credit card o/s Bal £4500

 

4 ) D defaulted on payments

 

5 ) C issued Formal Demand requested payment dated 03/01/2019

 

6 ) Amount now due from D £9000

 

 

************************* FINAL Defence *********************************************

 

 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has partially complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (pre action protocol) but failed to serve a letter of claim

(s) for both alleged agreements pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 1 and 3 are noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with halifax / LloydsTSB . I am unaware of what alleged debt(s) the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim, and have therefore sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request and a CPR 31.14 request.

 

In response the claimant has disclosed an application form for Lloyd's which is Illegible and incomplete therefore not enforceable pursuant to sec 61 .1 a/b/c.

 

And in response to my section 78 request for the halifax agreement - an application form 1 page...which refers you to sign and return the agreement....barely legible - along with a reconstituted version which is void of an account number or date to which it supposedly refers to.

Both of which are pre April 2007 credit applications and therefore unenforceable pursuant to sections 61.1 and 65.1 and sections 127.1.

 

4. Paragraph 2 is noted but it is denied that I was ever served Notice of Assignment at the time of the Assignment dated 17/06/2015.The claimant disclosed copies pursuant to my CPR 31.14 request dated xxxxxx post claim.

 

5. Paragraph 4 is denied. I am unaware of any service of a Default Notice (s) pursuant to section 87 of the consumer credit

Act 1974. I have sought verification from the claimant regarding this matter and they have been unable to comply.

 

 

6.Paragraph 5 is noted but I refer you to my point 2 and the claimants non-compliance of paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (pre action protocol ).The claimant is not in a position to issue demands.

 

7. Paragraph 6 is denied for the reasons stated in my point 2.

 

8.It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice;

© show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

9. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

10. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

 

11. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Thanks again.

[AndyOrch]

Done and renumbered.

[yodabug]

Thanks Andy - appreciated