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    • Thanks, @FTMDave for your feedback, I will take your points on board. I was using the title "Mitigation" in an attempt to convey how reasonably I have behaved, and how stubborn and overzealous (i.e. unreasonable) the claimant and their solicitors are. Any suggestions for a more appropriate title ? Cheers --skeet23
    • Hi guys   4 old debts (catalogues) have been sold to Lowells, I requested copies of credit agreements and received them this week.  I also received a notice of assignment from them for an old Vanquis account.  I need to pay these debts off but don't want them touching my bank account so was thinking of setting up a standing order.  I guess I will have to send them details of income and expenditure.  My question is, do I need to give my husband's details?  We are not really getting on at the minute and this will be the last straw for him so I would rather just leave him out of this.   Many thanks for reading x
    • I am unable to get credit of any description, apart from a payday loan with expensive Provident.   I have 3 accounts, 2 with Capital One, the other with Vanquish.   These 3 do show late repayments, but Capital One is showing partically settled in September 2018 and Vanquis settled in full in December 2016.   The main issue I had is with NewDay Ltd.   I notified NewDay that my disability living allowance was stopped after I had my review when I went to transfer over to PIP.   NewDay were sympathetic, and agreed to place my account on hold, freezing interest and payments etc etc.   On the 4th May 2018, I received a letter from NewDay; theyagreed that due to my financial issues, they would no longer chase me for payment.   Soon after, a default was issued with with credit reference agencies that the account default with a default date of 12th June 108.   Why then agree to not chase me for payment then issue me with a default seems to me to be grossly unfair!?   I did a Notice of Correction on my credit file to show lenders that my account was on hold, and they agreed not to chase me for payment.   Can anyone please give me some advice?   I have a good income of £1100 a month in benefits income, and I state on applications I am retired.   I am initially accepted for credit, but they then go to the CRA's, I am then declined.   Its frustrating I can only get a loan with Provident.
    • Sorry, I don't think I explain my case correctly. I'm the guarantor for a friend that rented a shop. My friend couldn't make rent repayment and the landlord terminated her contract. Now the landlord (claimants) has taken out the claim against me as I was the guarantor and is responsible for my friend's debt. When I first  became the guarantor, I signed an agreement with the claimants. ( 1st agreement) A year later I had a meeting with the landlord to discuss my debt situation and told them I was struggling to make repayment. They agreed to give me a debt deduction and other terms, so a new agreement was drawn up (agreement 2). to replace the 1st agreement.   In 2016 I received a warning letter for late repayment. No further warning letter or contact has been made by the claimant since 2016 so I was shocked when I received the money claim.  Claimants have only attached the 1st agreement with their claim form and they denied there was a 2nd agreement. Now they have submitted their final witness statement and attached the 1st and 2nd agreement. Proving the 2nd agreement does exist.   My question is; 1. How important is it that no letter before action was sent before I received the money claim? 2. Now there's proof of a 2nd agreement which was signed and dated after the 1st agreement. Does it prove that the 1st agreement is invalid? 3. Would the court dismiss this claim if they believe the claimants have submitted an invalid agreement for their money claim?    Thank you. 
    • Hi   What date did they move into the Property & when did the Tenancy end?   How long was the initial Tenancy Agreement for?   Did you pay a Deposit/Holding Deposit for the Property?   Exactly what Notice of Arrears was given and when(what date)? (if for rent arrears)   Are they still in the Property or have they ended their Tenancy as per the Notice requirement to end that tenancy?   Is the Claim for Rent Arrears/Damages etc.?   Have you sent a Subject Access Request (SAR) which is free(due to GDPR) to the Landlord/Letting Agent asking for 'ALL DATA'?    
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Hello BF, apologies for the tardiness I'm trying to post while still working and not checking grammar, is the below better.

 

The email we sent was only to get acknowledgement the installation centre manager would take ownership and visit us to discuss / agree all items listed. It was never to get a formal response from their legal team although their legal executive was included within the "to" field.

 

The legal person is the one that signed and sent the standard threatening letter for us to allow them back to resolve the problems within a certain time frame, ignoring the fact other items still need to be ordered and manufactured which would take a longer time than we were given.

 

So yes, I agree the other items were ignored and to the whole sorry state we are in, no one in Everest responds other than the installation managers at best.

 

I intend to nail him down on the all the rectifications they will undertake and how, to the point of stating another’s opinion on whether the windows needed to be pushed forward or not was simply to get them to write down the reason they had to do this in our case because the other company we engaged told us they felt it was done for ease and speed only.

 

I agree with you, we are not demanding they do things based on other companies say so, we are just looking for written confirmation from them, so we could use it as evidence if needed. I expect this, and all other items be clearly listed within the new rectification list I asked to be created and sent back within 7 days of the visit.

 

The 14 days to respond to the email was due to our availability, we only have 2 days available over the next two weeks hence not pushing for a quicker visit (we are trying to be reasonable in all cases, don't ask me why as they haven't).

 

We are not happy far from it, we are tired, concerned, stressed and very naive when it comes to handling these situations and why we took advice from those already listed only to be told we are pretty much stuffed unless we wish to pay for the privilege of getting out of the contract.

 

We entered into the contract in May last year and paid the deposit (circa £1200), remaining amount could be paid at completion or financed through the home solutions plan (we took this option so we could pay the remaining balance over 6 months circa £11500).

 

Agreed installation date was August and kept to, the first installation day we noticed problems and called customer services who sent the installation manager round the next day. He confirmed the issues and said he would re-order certain items and could they proceed with the installation to which we agreed.

 

The next day when doors started to go in we realized that all items were damaged and called a halt to the installation. The installation manager returned the next day and agreed and stated the whole lot needed re-ordering, including the items that had not been installed as they were checked from the van and also damaged.

 

We agreed to this with no complaints, he said it would take 2 - 3 weeks which we felt was optimistic but hey, new customers and failed installs must get priority right! Due to the severity of the failed installation, every window and door damaged, we requested the full rectification list be sent to us to avoid any missed items causing further delay to the rectification work. Needless to say this never materialized until the 9th week of waiting, I think you know the details here.

 

We did get a quote from another company to remove all Everest and remaining old windows, so yes like for like quote and £3000 cheaper, well you pay for the best so we thought! We could only pay a max of 10% deposit, maybe the 50% deposit is due to their new 0% finance offer which we did not have an option for last year.

 

Again do not get too caught up with the finance agreement, we were happy to pay the interest to allow for the 6 month payment schedule to make it a little easier for us to pay, my note was just to allow us to pay the outstanding balance without financial penalty as there is a "lost interest" clause to protect Everest in the event customers change their minds on completion.

 

You get a further discount by taking the Home Solutions plan, @19 .9% apr it's not really a discount for those that don't pay it off quickly.

There is an incomplete schedule "rectification list" excluding dates for work to be done, but no point uploading as it is incomplete, and the purpose of the meeting was to get written agreement of all outstanding work and timescales to do it including commitment on order / re manufacturing and delivery times. Once we have that, we'll post here in PDF format for further advice.

 

Knowing we HAVE to give them a chance to rectify the problems, we have to get this new list and schedule in writing within an agreed reasonable time frame which seems to be 8 weeks but not a legal requirement it seems. We shall not allow any work to continue until we have this in writing along with names of seniors that can address the other items listed.

 

Ultimately, why we have not pursued our strict conditions at this stage, it's as if we must start again because the chance to rectify clause. Going forward we would like to stick with yourself to help us with next steps at each stage, hopefully this is doable?

Kindest regards.

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Thank you.

 

I think your interests are best served by getting out of this contract – and I have the impression that you agree.

 

Have you photographic and/or written evidence of all the defects and problems which have occurred? When I say written evidence, I mean specifically written confirmation from Everest?

 

I see that you have entered into a finance plan and the repayments are not to start until the installation has been completed. I suppose that interest isn't calculated until that date as well. The finance plan is a consumer credit agreement and as such there will be some protection from section 75 which basically means that the lender also has to take responsibility for the work which they have financed.

 

You say that you have got a rectification list. This would be helpful evidence and I be grateful if you could post it up in PDF format. Although I may not understand the technicalities, it will help to create a better general picture.

 

I think at some point quite soon – and assuming you do want to terminate the contract – you will have to send them a letter and make time of the essence which basically means that you give them a very limited time to react and if they do not then you will consider the contract is terminated and you will sue for the return of your deposit and any expenses associated undoing their defective work and getting someone else in to do the job properly.

 

It's a shame that you sent them the letter of the 16th and gave them a rather leisurely 14 day deadline simply to arrange a visit. I think by doing this you rather surrender your position until that deadline has expired.

 

You say that you are only around for a couple of days over the next 14 days. So what happens if they try to arrange a visit at a time which isn't convenient for you? They can then say that they have made it an honest attempt to accede to your deadline and the failure of the visit to take place was caused by your lack of availability. How would you handle this? That would immediately hand an advantage to Everest.


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By the way, I asked you for a copy of the schedule of works/quotation and also what was the agreed timescale for completion of the project


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We would love to get out of the contract, we have no faith in them whatsoever.

 

Yes, we have photographic evidence and in a position to get as much as we need. The rectification list is written evidence that Everest agree to all the problems although this needs completing as per previous response.

 

Payment, financed or other is paid on completion and 100% satisfaction.

 

Rectification list attached, 3rd page is the additional items that needed clarification or were missed.

 

Understand the letter, I will look to you for guidance but this can only happen if they fail to rectify within the stated conditions. I am very nervous NOT giving them the opportunity as this seemed to be the legal piece with the biggest risk.

 

14 days we felt reasonable, if we need to change days off to accommodate their "busy" schedule we can, we just need notification.

 

There was no schedule written down for the rectification work to be done, they only state what's in their complaints procedure online with no other commitment (https://www.everest.co.uk/contact/complaints-policy/).

 

They state "We aim to resolve them within 8 weeks but where, exceptionally, this is not possible, we will work closely with you to achieve a satisfactory outcome as quickly as we can."

 

Gives them an open door I guess!

Needless to say, "work closely with us" along with all other complaints procedure were ignored completely.

 

 

 

Everest_Rect_List.pdf

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Thank you for the rectification report. Do you agree its contents? Is there anything left out? I imagine that none of it has been addressed.

 

I notice also that in the rectification report plus the A4 note which has been written – which I imagine is probably by you, none of it is dated. When was this written?


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I suggest that you send the following letter – but only if you are prepared to carry out the threat. Don't bluff.

 

Further to my letter of 16 January, you have telephoned me ostensibly to arrange a visit to my property.

 

However, you have failed to address the other points in my letter and also I think under the circumstances this all needs to be done in writing. You will appreciate that so far we are dealing with a trail of largely broken verbal promises and this has got to stop.

 

I pointed out my letter that I was contemplating legal action and I set out certain conditions which I told you were strict. You have not addressed these.

 

I'm now informing you that due to the fact that this work started in August and is still barely completed – and given the quality of the workmanship and the repeated supply of damaged or defective products, I'm now making time of the essence.

 

You have the remainder of the 14 days to respond to my letter of the 16th in writing and also to visit my property. I'm then giving you a further seven days to undertake and to complete remedial works to the poor quality installations which have been made so far. I will not permit you to embark on any new work until the existing installations are fitted to a proper standard which I will have verified by an independent assessor.

 

You should also note that if eventually you are permitted to address the remainder of the contracted works, that I will arrange to have this properly supervised and verified at every step

 

If the conditions that I have set out my letter of 16th and also here are not met by that seventh day – say, 7 February, then I will consider that you have terminated our contract by your breach and and in the absence of an immediate written confirmation that your contract is at an end together with immediate reimbursement and agreement to pay our reasonable losses, I will begin a legal action against you to recover my deposit money plus any other expenses reasonably incurred in removing your installation and having the work done by another competent installer.

 

Please notice that I shall also consider that the credit agreement which I entered into and which was predicated upon the successful completion of the contracted work, is also at an end. I shall inform the lender and because this is an agreement under the Consumer Credit Act, I shall warn them that they may also fall to be liable for your shoddy standard of workmanship and all ensuing losses.

 

Believe me

 

You should set about immediately getting two independent assessments of the work which has been carried out and quotations for stripping out the work carried out so far and installing a replacement.

 

Once you obtain these quotes then you can send these to Everest as well as a piece of supplemental which may help them to form their view as to whether or not they should take you on in court.

 

If getting these estimates interferes with your current schedule of availability, then I suggest that you re-prioritise because getting these estimates is essential.

 

Let me know if you think that this is a reasonable course of action.

 

As far as I can make out you will be suing for £1100 plus whatever the independent estimates consider is a reasonable cost of bringing your house back to zero so that you work can commence. You should also be to claim for any reasonable ancillary losses. If this is broadly correct then I can imagine that you will be suing for a figure of not exceeding £4000 and the claim fee for this is about £200 – recoverable if you win. There is also a hearing fee which may be also about £200 – once again recoverable if you win.

 

On the basis of what I understand so far I would consider that your chances of success at better than 90%. It will be interesting to see if Everest decide to put their hands up at some point or whether they decide to push you into court.

 

As I say, if you are happy with this approach then I suggest you send this letter off tonight so that they receive it on Monday. Don't send it earlier. If you are happy about this approach then you should register with MoneyClaim online and start exploring the site so that you understand how to issue a claim. We will help you draft the particulars of claim.

 

Spend some time reading around on this website about the steps to bring a County Court claim. It's quite easy – but it helps your confidence to understand the steps. Always try to be in a position where you understand the next step. B1 chapter ahead rather than one chapter behind. If you are at all nervous about going to court then I suggest that you conduct a familiarisation visit.


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Edited above draft letter slightly


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This is so helpful, I will digest it over the weekend as I'm in and out of meetings all day and won't be in a position to draft the letter.

 

Yes, we agree the contents of the rectification list it's just incomplete.

 

The items listed are ready to be installed, they are sat at their warehouse waiting for us to give the go ahead.

 

The missing items are not ready and would need to be agreed, ordered, manufactured, delivered then installed which will take an undetermined amount of time (no priority will be given to us I would assume meaning another 8+ weeks).

 

We did NOT want them to come back to do that initial work, claim completion and go for payment as we read they had done that previously to people! We would rather all parts be available and installed in one go if it came to that.

 

The third page was an email sent to the installation manager after receiving the rectification list, so it is dated.

 

We are not bluffing, we feel cheated, scammed and completely let down by all involved (this site being the exception), we have learnt a very hard and already costly lesson through no fault of our own.

 

Just to be clear on the draft letter above, are you saying this should be a postal version and not emailed?

 

Thanks again for all your time thus far.

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Send it both ways – and also you may as well send an updated rectification letter outlining all the things which they have identified and also the things which you have identified and point out to them that this is the reference list but it should not be treated as being definitive. It is simply the matters which you have identified and as you do not hold out any expertise in this area, there may be things that you have missed.

 

Important to emphasise that your list is the reference list.

 

You would be completely wrong to allow them in to remedy the existing work and then complete the rest of the job at the same time. I think you should impose very strict quality standards and that means that they repair everything that has gone wrong so far and as you have said in your letter, you get independent verification – and then depending on that assessment, you allow Everest to continue.

 

Under no circumstances do you make any further payment. You haven't told us but I expect that the windows all match each other and so if you had windows fitted by another company they would be a different style or something. Therefore it is possible to say that the contract is not a severable contract and it must be taken as a whole. This allows you to terminate the entire contract rather than have to argue the terms of an apportionment.

 

I don't expect that Everest will be prepared to agree to your conditions – I'm sure that they could complete the remedial works within the time scale that you have suggested that they will want to say that it's not reasonable. However your position must be absolutely firm that they have had since August to sort this out and you are not prepared to brook any further delays. Make it clear to them that it's absolutely no skin off your nose whether you go with somebody else and sue Everest – that you are now past caring.

 

I think calling the CCA 1974 in aid by involving the credit company will also Everest to understand that things might start to get quite complicated.


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Understood.

To the point of let them repair everything first I assume any noticeable failing of quality by myself, scratch, chips, marks etc. halts any further work to continue.

 

Whether the first or last item to be installed (excluding missing parts list), basically if the first window they put in exhibits the same issues we pull the plug and ask them to leave?

 

Yes, matching windows that look different to others we would replace them with so needing to be treated as a whole.

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I think that you have to give them the opportunity to complete the remedial work within your given timeframe. I don't think you can pull the plug earlier – but you should certainly point out any problems immediately and bring them to their attention in writing.

 

Also, you really need someone on hand to monitor what happens during the period allocated for the remedial work.


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I suddenly thought that it might be a good idea for you to wait until Sunday evening before sending the letter because that will give you the weekend to reflect over it and to be certain that you are confident in your position and in the action you are proposing to take.


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Indeed, you have given us a lot to digest when trying to do my everyday job.

 

There are some conflicts in my head such as your last entry about allowing the remedial work to continue even if the replacement units are not fit for purpose.

 

The damage taking these out is not pretty, the more they do it the more damage it causes. I hate to think what all the different screw positions are doing to the external brickwork!

 

Anyway, enough for today you have been patient, understanding and very helpful. Thank you.

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Indeed, you have given us a lot to digest when trying to do my everyday job.

 

There are some conflicts in my head such as your last entry about allowing the remedial work to continue even if the replacement units are not fit for purpose.

 

The damage taking these out is not pretty, the more they do it the more damage it causes. I hate to think what all the different screw positions are doing to the external brickwork!

 

Anyway, enough for today you have been patient, understanding and very helpful. Thank you.

 

Yes, I hadn't really understood that. You are probably right


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On a side note, did you send Fensa a complaint/feedback?

I remember someone telling me that they are quite strict and suspend their licences as soon as they see some bodged jobs but can't confirm this personally.

Maybe another way to gain their attention.

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Get a judgment against Everest and then send it to FENSA. Then they'll listen


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I don't know how Fensa operates, but if by chance they sent someone around to see the shabby work, wouldn't this help the op ?

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Hi, sorry for the late reply, difficult to balance 12hr days and sensible responses.

 

Digested all info over the weekend and understand what we need to do to push this forward, however their installation centre manager responded to the email (sent 15th) and agreed to visit Tuesday (22nd) to discuss.

 

We held off sending the formal and firm email, letter until we heard what he had to say.

 

Needless to say his attitude was one of defensive, trying to use a scratch on a new car window as an analogy. When I pointed out he was being very singular in his statement and to correct the analogy I returned with "you have supplied a car with multiple scratches on multiple windows with every other panel of the car having multiple scratches, chips and dents also" would that be acceptable?

 

Not sure he appreciated that!

 

Anyway, to cut a long story short he kept contradicting himself, in one breath he agreed with defects the other saying similar defects were unnoticeable and acceptable or repairable.

 

He often quoted he couldn't see anything wrong, along with our expectations are too high. Basically it's a building product and it's acceptable to have multiple defects!

 

He also mentioned there are manufacturing defect tolerances, mentioning a good rule of thumb being "if you cannot see the defect from 2 metres away, then it's not a problem". White on white damage is never going to be noticeable from 2 metres, I must remind myself to close my eyes when I need to open the window.

 

Basically he was defending all the defects but agreeing to replace all items that were ordered, however where possible to avoid taking out the current damaged ones they may try a repair first!

 

He was arguing many of the missing items I listed, maybe to save re-ordering costs! He felt some of the items could be repaired, and if not satisfactorily he would then reorder the items.

 

So question, under the consumer protection act it states goods should be free of minor defects, marks... does this apply to goods for building work?

 

I'm waiting on the new defect list he has been tasked to compile, including all the bits he's prepared to do including ordering missing parts and repairs willing to undertake.

 

I reminded him of the 7 days to return this list to me.

 

He also stated he could get plastic items ordered and delivered in 2 weeks, glass within 4, all of these statements and claims of tolerances, expectations I've asked for written commitment or proof.

 

I will now draft a letter based on all my concerns and expectations from the visit, may need help if still available.

 

As for FENSA, they only deal with building regs, I do not believe or claim they have breached any of these.

Edited by Mondaynottuesday

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I don't suppose you took notes during the meeting??

 

You need to note down the whole thing now and send a confirmation tomorrow of everything which was said and everything which was agreed – and everything which was not agreed.

 

Because I don't imagine that you did minute the meeting, you should also make it clear that the memorandum of it which you are sending him tomorrow is not necessarily an exhaustive record.

 

You don't say what is meant by "minor defects" – but I would say that no defects are permissible. Tolerances of course are – as long as they are reasonable tolerances that I can imagine that we are only talking about a millimetre or two.

 

Have you had independent estimates for making the problem and installing alternatives?


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Yes, we've had a quote to replace all windows, doors and additional time to repair any damage beyond what couldn't be covered by the standard installation.

 

You need to remember, the quote is cheaper than the Everest original by some way, yes like for like.

 

I have captured the content of the meeting and what I intend to put in the letter that I will send tomorrow morning once I recheck what I write tonight with a clear head.

 

Nothing has been agreed in writing, that is what I'm waiting for from them.

 

I don't know the definition of a minor defect from the consumer protection rule book, what I have are various and noticeable dents +5mm in diameter, black and roller marks within sealed units so cannot clean them, scratches several mm in length, deformed plastic edges due to the units being dragged on the floor and so on.

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Well they sound quite significant defects. And of course because you are talking about the appearance of your home, cosmetic defects are extremely important.

 

In any event, the enormous amount of time that it has taken to get this far is itself an extremely serious defect which effectively undermines the purpose of the contract, in my view.


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I hope a judge sees it that way, I am bound to let them try to rectify unfortunately. He also mentioned quite frankly that Everest do NOT let people out of contracts, regardless!

 

This is very evident from Trustpilot and other sites with people expressing anger being in a similar position. To your previous point, it's difficult for everyday people to get the strength to fight, financially it's not viable to get someone else to do it so you do need to do it yourself.

 

Even with your help it is daunting for most to undertake, squeezing all required actions between work, and what Everest know and play to. This is why I'm amazed at no REAL help from the bodies meant to protect the consumer, trading standards should be over this like a hot rash but nowhere to be seen!

 

Oh, another comment on why the original installation manager didn't respond, he changed roles 2 months ago, hmm this situation was escalated over 5 months ago. Again, avoided answering why the customer relations team couldn't be bothered to respond though.

Edited by Mondaynottuesday

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Your note on cosmetic appearance is a very good point and why we believed Everest were the right, hassle free choice. We have new windows that look and perform worse than 20+ year double glazed windows they took out. Luckily we still have some to prove that exact point!

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Hi BF, no surprise the time allowed to respond has been and gone. Although promising to send us a modified list for us to agree and move forward, they again fail to deliver.

 

We are now ready to proceed forward with legal action, can you please help with the final letter I should send to them if needed. I will then follow the previous guidanceEverest.pdf you sent.

 

Your assistance is most welcome.

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