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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
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Southern Water/shumans claim form - debts from 2007 ***Claim Struck Out***


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Name of the Claimant ? Southern Water Services

Date of issue – 12th December 2018

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The Claimant is a statutory water and sewerage undertaker to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act)

 

2.The Claimant claims the sum of £4559.62 for unpaid water and/or sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants’ Charges Scheme.

 

3.The unpaid sum of £4559.62 is for water and/or sewerage services provided to the Defendant(s) at XX XXXXX XXXXX (my address is here) for the period 11/07/2007 to 09/07/2018

 

4.The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 09/07/2018 to 11/12/2018 on £154.90 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1.00

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No

 

What is the total value of the claim? £4559.62

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? water

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? No

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original creditor

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? No

 

Why did you cease payments? Redundancy

 

What was the date of your last payment? Unsure

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan - i made a plan to pay through a card but found it difficult to pay through the card plan

 

 

…………….

 

Can anyone help me with filing an online response to a claim form I received via Shulmans for a Southern Water debt.

I realise I will have something to pay, but they are claiming from 09/07/2007 and I only moved into the property in the November 2007.

 

In addition, am I right in thinking that that over 6 years is subject to the statute of limitations and can therefore not be claimed for.

 

I completed an acknowledgment form within the 14 days,

but I’m now feeling anxious that my online response covers everything correctly to give me the best outcome.

​Help needed

Edited by dx100uk
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no. any sum/bill that was included in this litigation you can effectively now forget about. they cant demand it, they've tried court, they failed.

Yes if you genuinely owe.....but nothing in connection to claim ...costs/ fees ..only true water debt. 

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Yes, the water bill is subject to the six-year limitation rule – as long as you have not kept the debt legally alive by either acknowledging the portion of the debt older than six years or having made any payments towards during the last six years.

 

Certainly, for the period during which you did not live at the address then there is no basis for the action and that would prove to be a solid defence but it only represents a small portion of the claim.

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So, I haven’t made any payments in this time, so I need theory they can’t claim. How do I go about writing this on my response.

 

Do I defend part of it? In which case, how do I know how much I have to pay because they didn’t send me the breakdown particulars with the claim

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Here is a proposed draft defence – although I expect that site team member: DX will be along shortly to suggest something more appropriate. At the very least, they suggested defence would give you an idea of the points/arguments that you should make.

 

it is denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

The defendant has received no notice or communication from the claimant in respect of the alleged debt and the claimant has not attempted to engage with the defendant under the pre-action protocol of October 2017.

Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim so the defendant is unable to defend specifically.

Therefore the claim should be struck out.

In any event, during at least part of the period for which the claimant is claiming, the defendant was not an occupant at the address.

Furthermore a substantial portion of the claim is subject to the Limitation Act and is statute barred.

 

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Thank you bankfodder. That makes sense. I was concerned because the claim form is either admit part, which I don’t know how much that would be, or defend all, but I understand that I owe something. So that doesn’t fit. I’m assuming you can’t defend all if you feel you owe something? But if I admit part, how will the court know what I would owe.

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From what you say it seems to me that they have made so many errors in their approach that you are fine defending in the way I suggested above. You clearly don't have enough information to understand what you should admit to and so your best tactic is simply to deny everything.

 

They can either supply better particulars or could they can discontinue – or maybe (just maybe) the court might order a strike out

 

Incidentally, I better say now that I have no idea why you have left it so late to deal with this. You say that you received the claim around about 12 December. You clearly knew enough to acknowledge on time so why on earth have you left it to now – the last minute to start defending.

 

You've been here since 2016, after all.

 

By the way, is it possible that you have moved address which might explain why you didn't receive any communications? This is an important point

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Anyway, you are in no hurry to get it in today or tomorrow – wait until site team member: DX comes along, he is much better versed on the debt stuff than I am.

 

I will flag it up to him.

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In all honesty bankfodder,

I have very little defence,

I’m not very good with money,

and my husband is worse.

 

However, I have made a promise this year I’m going to get it sorted, and I have made budget plans and started paying debts off.

 

I have started the MCOL lots of times,

but not submitted it because I felt confused as to which way to go.

 

I had forgotten that this website existed,

I had signed up when I needed some previous help,

but haven’t been on since.

 

I googled for advice, and CAG came up.

When I went online, I realised I had a log in.

 

I of course accept people’s judgement of my poor financial decisions,

which is part of the reason for hiding the issues away,

because it was easier at the time to continue moving along in life without addressing them.

 

However,

I’m big enough and ugly enough to stand up finally (!) and pay this debt off as well as making plans to pay all my other debt off and become more financial intelligent.

 

I’m not sure my husband is been there yet,

hence why I’ve taken over the finances.

Someone’s got to take this on

Edited by dx100uk
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If you have problems with other debts then maybe you should tell us about those as well in new threads. Can probably help you get a handle on those as well. As you are starting to bite the bullet – you may as well do the whole thing.

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Definitely definitely agree! I started with Southern Water because it was time driven. I think I might become a prolific cagger in my desire to get out of debt.

I judge myself harder than anyone on here can, and I’m responsible for being in this position. However I have the will to move out of this position and I thank people like yourself for offering advice and support to financial airheads like myself

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I notice that you haven't answered my question about whether or not you have changed your address

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I notice that you haven't answered my question about whether or not you have changed your address

 

No, I moved here in Nov 2007 and haven’t moved since. I have received SW bills but not from Shulmans. Although I note from other SW posts, UK Search are often the DCA

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there are numerous threads here on the old to date shuman SW claimforms.

read these:

 

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=Southern+Water/shumans&sa=Search+CAG

 

your defence is due by 4pmMOnday.

 

have a go, pop it up here

and also don't forget you didn't receive the pre action protocol pack? which they should have sent.

 

yes include PART of the debt is outside of 6yrs.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Thank you DX. Let me get this clear in my head. I’ve read all the SW cases on here, and I’m on MCOL filing in my response. I am to defend all of the claim, and in my defence will be the error on the date of the start of the date, as well as the debt having 5 years out of time for 2007-2012.

 

And do I need to complete a CPR 31:34 which I see has been suggested for others when there is some debt owed.

 

Ok first draft defence response. Thoughts!

 

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

It is accepted that I currently reside in an area that is serviced by the Claimant is a statutory water and sewerage undertaker pursuant to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act).

 

The Claimant claim of £4449.62 for unpaid sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme for the period 11/07/2007 to 09/07/2018 is denied.

 

The claimant has never contacted or requested this amount and did not receive the Pre Action protocol of October 2017.

 

The Defendant moved into the property in question in November 2007 and therefore the start date of the claim is beyond the liability of the defendants.

Furthermore the claimant is prevented from back billing for a period of more than 6 years pursuant to the limitation act 1980.

 

It is brought to the Courts attention that on receipt of this claim dated 12 December 2017 I contacted Shulmans to discuss the fact that I moved into my property in November 2007, and therefore cannot be liable for the debt as claimed from 11/07/2007.

 

I requested information with regards to making a payment arrangement or through the Watersure scheme but was advised that this is not now possible as the debt had been passed to UK Search.

I was offered a payment card, but no details of how to use this.

It is therefore for the above reasons that the claimant claim is

denied.

 

Hmm, do I state on my defence that I’ve sent a CPR 31:14 off?

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You send CPR 31:14 regardless

 

Sb is 6yrs unless you were/are in Scotland.

 

That's for later. Just do AOS CPR as the other threads

 

Have go at defence ready for Monday

Post it up here 1st mind

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

no need

 

not sure on the blue bit

 

should it not be:

 

The Claimant claim of £1606.72 for unpaid sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme for the period 23/05/2008 to 29/11/2016 is denied.

The claimant has never billed or contacted or requested this amount and is put to strict proof to evidence this fact.

 

Furthermore the claimant is prevented from back billing for a period of more than 6 years pursuant to the limitation act 1980.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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I assume you mean with my own dates and total claimed. Think that’s the OP

I’m happy to put this, however how do I highlight that I didn’t live there between June and November

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no need that's immaterial as its outside of 6yrs anyway.

KISS

keep it simple stupid.

 

less is more

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Ok, this is my defence then. If I enter this into the MCOL defence, on the defend all of the claim section, and file it with them tonight.

Then file a CPR 31:14 with Shulmans for all the bills relating to their claim timeline. Anything else I should do. I’ll file my CPR 31:14 next for someone to look over.

 

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

 

The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claimicon pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

It is accepted that I currently reside in an area that is serviced by the Claimant as a statutory water and sewerage undertaker pursuant to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act).

 

The Claimants claim of £4559.62 for unpaid sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme for the period 09/07/2007 to 11/12/2018 is denied.

 

The claimant has never billed or contacted or requested this amount and is put to strict proof to evidence this fact.

The Defendant moved into the property in question in November 2007 and therefore the start date of the claim is beyond the liability of the defendants.

Furthermore the claimant is prevented from back billing for a period of more than 6 years pursuant to the limitation acticon 1980.

 

I requested information with regards to making a payment arrangement or through the Watersure scheme but was advised that this is not now possible as the debt had been passed to UK Search.

 

I was offered a payment card, but no details of how to use this.

 

It is therefore for the above reasons that the claimant claim is

denied.

Edited by dx100uk
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No do all of post 17

 

Thought you said you'd read those threads.... .. .

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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no need that's immaterial as its outside of 6yrs anyway.

KISS

keep it simple stupid.

 

less is more

 

I would suggest that it is worth referring to the discrepancy in the occupancy date – simply because it serves further to discredit the claimant because it adds to the evidence that they are in disarray and their evidence cannot be relied upon.

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The CPR is what I’ve been advised I need to compete tonight.

I will post this first thing on Monday.

 

The MCOL defence statement,

which I was looking for help with,

is the piece in post 23,

which bankfodder has advised I should highlight the date error,

which is how I would have approached it.

 

However, I am clearly no expert,

as otherwise I wouldn’t have got myself into this situation.

Hence the cry for help.

I’m not sure what you’re saying I’ve missed DX?

 

Sorry, I haven’t completed the CPR yet as stated in the above post.

I write that in error, I completed the AOS back in December

Edited by dx100uk
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get the CPR done

 

IMHO the fact that you moved in after the 1st bill is contrary to you denying the debt

and can be introduced later in the disclosure stage if the claim gets that far.

 

post 23 updated. ditch blue add red

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Thank you, this is really helpful. I’ll send a defence to the claim online tonight. I’ve printed the CPR 31:14 and it’s ready to go, recorded delivery on Monday morning. I guess I just wait for their move after this.

I will update this thread when I have a reply.

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the court will write once you file your defence

gives them 28 days to do 'something'.

 

watch the other SW threads carefully as many are slightly infront of you and will give you a good idea which way yours will go.

 

subscribe to each one click threads tools subscribe from the thread tools pulldown menu of each thread

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Great, thank you. I’ve been reading them, but didn’t realise about subscribing to make it easier to keep up to date.

Right, one debt on the move. I’ll address another batch tomorrow via CAG

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  • Andyorch changed the title to Southern Water/shumans claim form - debts from 2007 ***Claim Struck Out***
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