NCP ANPR PCN - Crawley Kingsgate - paid but ticket thrown - NTK out of time away since

[dx100uk]

the reason is explained in post 10

the NTK is outside of the 14 days they had

end of problem.

 

appealing is pointless and can only harm your obvious win.

[Summersea]

Okay thanks. I will stay put for now and wait for the final letter informing me that they are going to court right? And then I send them a letter explaining why their PCN is void.

[renegadeimp]

That letter will probably never come . And if it is, come back here and we will kill any attempt dead . If they still went to court, you can easily claim costs too.

 

Until then, do nothing. And remember, IF ( and its a big IF), it will be months away, maybe longer. Theres a lengthy procedure that has to be followed by them, or any court would throw the claim out themselves. Theyve failed at the very first step. SO sit back, enjoy life, and let them slip up even more.

[dx100uk]

no

 

If/when you get a letter before/of claim from one of the fake/tame paper only solicitors then pop back.

it will NOT ever be an appeal

but an insulting letter to the solicitors.

 

go read like threads here OR parking prankster site

NOWHERE else!!

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Do the right thing follow the advice given Do Not Appeal.

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

[lookinforinfo]

Only around 10% of unpaid tickets end up in Court and that figure is even less with NCP. So why waste time,money and energy

On them.

And by appealing your name comes to their attention that otherwise wouldn't. So now they think you are worried about not paying so will try harder to get you to pay.

[brassnecked]

It's a numbers game, they have no right to demand anything due to issues with signage, timescales and other fators that make it nigh on impossible for them to win a defended claim, by appealing they think you have MUG tattooed on your forehead, especially if someone refers in an appeal to their speculative invoice as a FINE.

 

You already have best advice, ignore but keep letters for reference and come back if you get a Letter of Claim from their tame useless solicitors like Gladdys or BW Legal.

[ericsbrother]

you are not ignoring them completely by not writing to them to appeal. They have got it wrong so let them waste their money chasing you for no purpose rather than responding and making it appear as thiough you may be mug enough to pay up if they continue to harrass you. If you want to write to someone write to the DVLA and demand to know who accessed your keeper details and when. That can make it easier to make a claim against them for breach of the GDPR and in the long run show that the DVLA is breaking the law by handing over people's details without determining whether the parking co's have any right to obtain them for the reasons stated..

 

It is all a big con so dont fall for it and go on the offensive. You have read the other thread on this site so use that information to empower you. help each other as well and it becomes less leikey the cowboys will bother trying their luck at court.

 

So when we say dotn ignore we mean dont let it get to the stage of a court summons without telling them about themselves but that is usually blasting their letter before claim ( usually wrongly constructed as well)

Edited January 7, 2019 by honeybee13
Paras

[Summersea]

Okay I have received another letter marked 'Final Reminder'. This one is to be ignored as well I guess? Or do you want a scan of the letter?

[dx100uk]

as post 31

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

stop panicking and reread what you have been told very carefully.There is not a quick fix for this as they dont want to give up on the expected £100 but continue to wait and ignore any letter from any debt collector. By all menas tell us when they arrive and who sent them but remember they are meaningless threatograms sent by peopel paid just to write scary letters.

[Summersea]

I have received the second letter from the 'Debt Collector' today telling me that this is their final letter before handing this over to the solicitor. I've tried to upload the scan but unfortunately the PDF is too big in size.

Am I ignoring this letter as well and wait for the solicitor to contact me?

How long until I can expect to hear from the solicitor? My problem is that I will be going on holiday at the end of March for 3 weeks. If I receive a 'final' letter during the holiday with e.g. a 14 day window in which to reply I would have a problem(?)

[AndyOrch]

Have a  good holiday 

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

Even if you get as post 31

You have 30 days

If you read around you'd have known that

[Summersea]

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

And even if you then get a court claim you have another 33 days...so get packing and forget it

[ericsbrother]

again I remind you ro read the advice given properly and stop panicking about what sonmeone who has no interest or say in anything says in their letters

[Summersea]

I returned form my holiday today and found a letter from bwlegal on behalf of NCP dated the 9th of April informing me that I have 14 days to pay (which would be today). I have attached the letter. Is this the 'last letter before claim' or is this letter still to be ignored?

 

[dx100uk]

ignore.

not a Letter of claim

 

get reading like threads 

[renegadeimp]

its just a silly threatogram.   

[ericsbrother]

BWL are the parking world second worst solictors and if you compare their letter with those written by their competitors it appears as though they even plagiarise the other dca's homework.

 

they may well be lawyers but they are acting as a rentathreat and relying on their letterhead scaring you into thinking they have superpowers when they don't.

 

as they say, they havent been instructed and their additional unicorn food tax is unlawful and as lawyers they know this but hope you dont.

 

Why the mention Trace is a bit of a mystery unless they want it to look like they aren't money grabbing dissemblers and so you are supposed to pay someone else for the unicorn food but it doesn't change the fact that as there is no admission of being the driver then you didn't agree to the terms and the POFA applies and  NCP got that so wrong there is no keeper liability so they have just killed another tree for no reason.

 

On the other hand, they may all just be totally incompetent and actually belive the rubbish they trot out but then they would have stopped sending it the first time they were caught out so immoral or dishonest it is then.

[Summersea]

It seems like they are not giving up. I have received the 'Letter of Claim' today (see attached - let me know if you need all pages).

 

Here is my draft, please let me know what you think.

 

Dear Madam/Sir

I have received a Letter of Claim regarding the above reference XXXXX.

I, <My Name>, am the registered keeper of the vehicle XXXXXXX but I would like to dispute the debt as the Parking Charge Notice XXXXXX is void. 
Date of incident: 06/12/2018
Date of issue of Parking Charge Notice to Keeper: 24/12/2018
Date received: 28/12/2018

I am the registered keeper but I was NOT the driver on that particular day. The driver has informed me that s/he has paid the £2.50 after arriving at the car park. 

The Recovery of Unpaid Parking Charges is guided by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4.

The applicable section §9 specifies how this notice must be given:
(4)
The notice must be given by—
(a)
handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)
sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5)
The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.
(6)
A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

 

Here §9 (4) (b) and §9 (5) are the relevant sections. The parking incident was on the 6/12/2018. The notice should have been delivered within 14 days, so it should have been received by me by the 20th of December. However the notice was only issued on the 24th of December and received by me on the 28th.

The notice is thereby invalid according to the Protection of Freedoms act 2012, Schedule 4, §6 (1) (b) and §9.

Please note that §7 and 8 and thereby §6 (1) (a) is not applicable as a notice to the driver according to §7 was never given.

You thereby have no rights under §4 to claim any unpaid parking charges from the keeper! 

The NCP has not met the keeper liability requirements and therefore keeper liability does not apply. The NCP can therefore only pursue the driver. As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline, as is my right, to provide the name of the driver(s) at the time. As the parking company have neither named the driver(s) nor provided any evidence as to who the driver(s) were I submit I am not liable to any charge.

Secondly NCP claims that no parking payment was done. The ‘evidence’ provided by NCP are two pictures of the car entering and leaving the car park. This is NOT evidence that the parking charge was not paid. The driver has confirmed to me that the parking charge was indeed paid. 
There are two possibilities, a malfunction in the system of NCP or a mistake entering the registration number. Making a mistake in entering the registration number does not equate to ‘Parking without Payment’. It only highlights a problem in the NCP system which allows the driver to enter a registration number that is not currently in the carpark. The NCP system knows which cars are in the car park at any point - so why is it not checking for this when a registration number is entered?
I am sure that an audit of the system will reveal that the registration number or a ‘similar number' not linked to any other car parked in the carpark at that point was entered and paid for during the parking period. Hence NCP never suffered any loss of income and cannot claim for unpaid parking.

 

Please consider the information provided. You should come to the conclusion that the ‘Letter of Claim’ is not enforceable and I intent to fight it should you decide to bring it to the County Court regardless.

Kind Regards

xxxxx

 

 

What do you think? I guess the best way is to send this via recorded delivery and not use their 'online' system. The have some reply form, I am inclined on not using it.

 

Thanks for your help.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Summersea

[lookinforinfo]

You should also point out that  as you were not the driver they cannot levy the 60 pound charge. as any decent solicitor would know. If they don't understand suggest they take legal advice and read POFA  as they appear to keep on adding it on to letters when they should be well aware the circumstances when it cannot be charged .

[dx100uk]

nope just send them the short and sweet snotty and insulting letter EB has posted in many threads here already