Jump to content
FloozW

Hermes, lost parcel, legalities

Recommended Posts

Can someone help and advise please.

 

I arranged for Hermes to collect from me a large(ish) parcel, and deliver to a friend over 200 miles away. The parcel contained some soft furnishing items I had made. I opted for a higher ‘value’ (£50), and paid the extra for insurance.

 

Hermes lost the parcel.

 

I’ve now spent over 6 weeks trying to get the matter resolved satisfactorily, but to no avail. They keep telling me they have done a ‘sweep’ of their depot/hub but haven’t found my parcel. It’s around 20” square, so too big to slip behind something and get lost, but according to Hermes, it has simply disappeared!

 

So we get to compensation (Although i’d rather they actually put some real effort in to finding the parcel and delivering it.

 

They are offering the £50 (which they now say was the ‘compensation’ I opted for (wrong, I gave £50 as the commercial value), plus the fee I paid, and £15 goodwill gesture as compensation, saying that is all they are ‘obliged’ to pay!

 

They certainly know how to add insult to injury! I spent around 16 hours making the items; have emailed and telephoned probably about 2 dozen times, which all adds to the considerable amount of time I have also spent in trying to get the matter sorted.

 

I’d like to fight this further, but would like to know more about the legalities involved, etc.

 

Can someone help please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi and Welcome to CAG

 

 

I have moved your thread to a more appropriate forum...please continue to post here. Have a read of the similar threads here with regards to the same problems and how other posters have dealt with similar situations...although I would imagine your only option now is to instigate a court claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

    Donate button Give something back to the Consumer Action Group   

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the value of the lost item?

 

Do you have photographs etc?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is the value of the lost item?

 

Do you have photographs etc?

 

Thank you for the replies, although not sure where I should be looking.

 

It’s difficult to put a value on the items, as I made them. However, sundry items used in their making cost approximately £55, and I could buy those items again for the same amount. But what I can’t put a value on is my time, and the inconvenience their negligence has caused me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve found where I should be looking though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve responded to their message, explaining they seem to be confused between ‘insured value’ and compensation. Surely, the insured value should be paid without question, as that is what I paid extra for; compensation for their negligence is a different issue,

 

Incidentally? I went through the process of booking a parcel delivery again, just to remind myself, and £50 insured value was the only option, other than the £20 value, which was ‘free’.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A side issue but which could be helpful is that are they really describing themselves as providing "insurance".

Are they regulated by the FCA for this activity?

 

Please could you post a link to their site where they use the word "insurance"


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Bankfodder

 

I’ve just looked again; the site doesn’t use the word insurance, but asks ‘what cover do you require’. I’ve also realised that I must have put the value in as £50 (which isn’t wrong), and the next question is ‘what cover do you require’, and then gives you two options, either “up to £20” which doesn’t require an extra fee, or “full cover up to £50” which was an additional 90p. The ‘up to’ amount changes according to what you put in the ‘value’ box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing which I realised you haven't told us yet is how much you want to receive in compensation.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In all honesty, I don’t really know, I just feel (strongly) that the compensation they are offering (which is just £15, as the value and refund of fee, should be recovered anyway), is derisory. I guess it doesn’t apply, but i’m Thinking along the lines of being put back into the position I would be in if their negligence hadn’t occurred - they can’t give me back my time, but they can compensate for it. I’m a believer in punitive damages, after all, with any issue involving a multi million £ company, £15 is hardly a disincentive to doing the job properly.

 

I’ve been reading the Consumer Rights Act, which although confirms what I should expect from a company regarding care and skill, doesn’t really help about what to expect when things go wrong.

 

My absolute preference though is they find the parcel and deliver it! From what i’ve seen, they must have a very large warehouse full of ‘lost’ parcels. Wish I knew where, as I would go there and identify mine!

 

What would you think it a ‘reasonable’ level of compensation, on top of the ‘value’?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid that there is no basis for punitive damages.

 

You can only claim for the value of the lost item. It's up to you to calculate the cost of the materials and allocate a suitable value in respect of the time that you spent adding value to those materials by making the object.

How much money did you spend for the delivery service? And also the additional cover?

 

I understand from you that they have offered you £50 + £15 + your fee which I suppose means the delivery charge. How much is that?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have offered £58.75 for the items (which is the total of the receipts which I have provided), although there was 2 additional items made from fabric I cannot provide a receipt for,), the total fee paid of £8.69 which includes an extra 90p for ‘cover’ and £15 as a ‘goodwill gesture’. It’s this ‘goodwill gesture’ that’s annoyed me.

 

It’s not goodwill, it’s compensation for their negligence. As I said to them in one of the various communications i’ve Had: the parcel cannot simply disappear, it was handed to their staff, it’s either on their premises somewhere, or it’s been pinched, there is no other explanation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is unclear.

Are you saying that they have offered you

58.75

8.69

15.00

=======

82.44


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that’s right.

 

I cannot prove a value of the additional items in the parcel, which would be in the region of £30, and I accept that.

 

Sorry, I forgot to say that I realise we don’t have punitive damages, but given the amount of large companies that flout laws (i’ve Experience of a couple not following employment law), we should have, as a stronger incentive to abide by them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but we aren't here to debate the jurisprudence of the matter.

 

We are here to exploit the existing law and existing procedure as much as we can to give people like Hermes a slap. We've done it before but on this occasion I'm a bit concerned because you aren't even able to tell us the value of your loss. And also, unusually they appear to have already offered you more than the £50 "cover" which you asked for.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only prove fabric and bits to the value of £58.75; in addition to that there was two items in the parcel which I cannot prove the value of, as the fabric used had been supplied to me by said friend, it was a good quality, and I would conservatively give a value of £30. However, I do accept that the ‘cover’ I elected was just £50.

 

To make these things again, will take another 16 hours of my time; even at national minimum wage, that’s over £100 worth of time. Plus, these items have been missing since mid/end of November, since then, i’ve made countless phone calls and emails (including emailing the ceo).

 

Like most people, given Hermes failure to act with the skill and care they should, i’d Like to give as big a ‘slap’ as possible. But that’s not out of greed or wishing to exploit the situation, but the belief that businesses like this need to learn lessons, and the only thing they understand is money.

 

I hope that helps,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s just dawned on me - I think. The value of my loss isn’t necessarily the same as the value of the lost items, so although they’ve agreed to pay for the lost items to the value of £58.75, my loss is greater than that, and should be compensated too. It’s very difficult to put things in the typed word sometimes, and i’m not the most eloquent person anyway. But am I making sense, and am I right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bankfodder - May I ask a question please?

 

Given that Hermes are now trying to limit their liability on the basis of the amount of ‘cover’ that I paid for, and they are now saying that was the amount of compensation I chose, would you say that was an ‘unfair term’ as a), it’s not transparent, and, b), it is to the detriment of the consumer?

 

Unfortunately, the CRA doesn’t really give any indication of what to expect when as a result of lack of care and skill actually results in the loss of items, only that the ‘service’ should be carried out again, or the payment made should be reduced/repaid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We often have problems with Hermes here and other parcel delivery services as well. It's generally speaking about lost or possibly damaged items and then the company trying to wriggle out of it. They generally say that it should have been insured for the correct amount.

 

I think all the cases here are where people haven't chosen any insurance figure at all so they haven't made any representation as to the value of the item.

 

My view is that if you pay for something to be delivered then the price that you pay is the price that should ensure that the item is delivered. It seems amazing to me that the culture has developed that one has to pay for the delivery and then pay something extra in case the delivery doesn't occur. I've made the point before that this is like ordering a meal in a restaurant for £10 and then when it arrives cold or it's the wrong item, you are then told will you should have paid extra to make sure that it was done correctly.

 

Paying for cover to make sure that the delivery is done correctly is like purchasing an extended warranty.

 

The only thing that troubles me in your case is that they could say that you misrepresented the value. This causes me little difficulty. The principle is still there you paid for a delivery and the delivery hasn't occurred. In ordinary circumstances I would say that your chances of success in the County Court on the basis of those facts would be better than 90%. By going ahead and purchasing some extra cover it seems to me that there is a faint possibility that it could be taken as having accepted the principle that you are only entrusting to them an item of a certain value.

 

Personally I would still want to challenge them on the basis that you paid for delivery and the delivery hasn't occurred and that it is unfair to expect you to insure against their breach. In my view it is for them to insure items against their own breach. Otherwise it's a bit like saying that I have to insure the third party driver in case he runs into me. It's nonsense.

 

As I say, I'm slightly less comfortable about the situation but I still reckon your chances of success in the County Court are better than 80%-85%.

 

Given the value of what you are trying to claim, I would simply threaten them with a letter before claim and then issue. It scarcely worth their while and of course if they did lose then the principle which I have outlined above would be pretty well established and then they would be in big trouble for any future losses or damage deliveries – and they certainly wouldn't want that.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Thanks for that Bankfodder. I started putting together a letter before action letter this afternoon, and also looking through info online here, which then made me look into the ‘ unfair terms’ section on the CRA.

 

Having now read Hermes T&C’s (like most, I didn’t at the time, and also wasn’t aware what a bad rep they had), I think there’s much that I believe would be classed as unfair.

 

Also, i’m guessing they will hide behind T&C’s, which, of course, do not replace their statutory duty.

 

I’ll keep you informed.

Edited by Andyorch
Edited

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update:

I issued a MCOL at the beginning of this month, date of ‘deemed’ service was 6th February, and i’ve heard nothing since. So, this morning I logged on to MCOL to request judgment, only to find that Hermes issued Acknowledgment of service on 11th February. So, i’ll sit and wait another 14 days. 🙄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have 33 days from date of issuance... if they intend to defend.


We could do with some help from you.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

    Donate button Give something back to the Consumer Action Group   

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Andyorch; I thought it was 28 days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

28 + 5 service


We could do with some help from you.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

    Donate button Give something back to the Consumer Action Group   

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again Andyorch. I just need to clarify, that is 28 days after service of the original claim, not 28 days after their acknowledgement? The 5 days has already been taken into consideration I think, as 6th February was the ‘official’ date of service, despite it being actually served on 1st February. Or have I misunderstood?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please fill in your quit date here

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?




  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Received a demand notice for council tax today, demanding some payment by Monday!!! or I will lose my right to pay in installments etc...   I am dealing with arrears and was awaiting a bill from the council regarding this years council tax so I could renogotiate with the debt collectors.   But I didn't receive anything!   So I managed to speak to someone today by phone and email and they are both say they wont accept my offer of a 12 month payment structure UNLESS I SET UP A Direct Debit.   I'm (probably) going to set that up next week and (probably) going to pay them an installment this weekend, however I would like to know what rights I have with regards to this; if there are any possible laws I could pull out of somewhere that I could potentially use to write off my debt to the council for this year on grounds of something?   I have told them by email they are in no position to demand anything from me at this point, because I never received any letter asking for payment in the first instance (which I would assume legally negates any power they can exercise through the current final demand letter they just sent me). I told them either accept my offer (pending any further arrangment for payment) or I will assume that I owe them nothing for this year.   I can't prove I didn'r receive the letter though, but I honestly didn't. They can't prove I did receive it either.   So my question is (pending any further payments and negotiations) is there a nice little legal loophole I can use to get out of paying council tax for this year on the above grounds?   I guess not (probably) but worth a punt anyway.              
    • ok sorry I missed a bit so where are you at now. you've got the warrant stayed?
    • thanks for your help guys, not going to lie this is really stressing me out
    • uploads removed 1st page has your name
    • Thankyou Captain Obvious, I am well aware of this. However, unless I have the money to pay the charges in the first place then I'm not really in a position to claim anything back. Perhaps it's better if I challenge the system on all the above grounds I have highlighted instead. I am still waiting a response from the dental practise or the NHS about my advice to them to claim the costs back from the practise for substandard treatment.
  • Our picks

    • This is a bit of a lengthy one but I’ll summerise best as possible.
       
      THIS IS HOW THE PHONECALL WENT 
       
      I was contacted by future comms by phone, they stated that they could beat any phone contract I have , (I am a limited company but just myself that needs a business phone and I am the only worker) 
      I told future comms my deal, £110 per month with a phone and a virtual landline, they confirmed that they could beat that, £90 per month with a phone , virtual landline  they also confirmed they would pay Vodafone (previous provider) the termination fee. As I am in business, naturally I was open to making a deal. So we proceeded. 
      Future comms then revealed that the contract would be with PLAN.COM and the airtime would be provided by 02, I instantly told them that this would break the deal as I have poor 02 signal in the house where I live as my partner is on 02 and constantly complaining about bad signal
      the salesman assured me he would send a signal booster box out with the phone so I would have perfect signal.
      so far so good.....
      i then explained this is the only mobile phone I use for business and pleasure, so therefore I didn’t want any disconnection time in the slightest between the switchover from Vodafone to 02
      the salesman then confirmed that the existing phone would only be disconnected once the new phone was switched on.
      so far so good....
      • 14 replies
    • A shocking story of domestic and economic abuse compounded by @BarclaysUKHelp ‏ bank complicity – coming soon @A_Gentle_Woman. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/415737-a-shocking-story-of-domestic-and-economic-abuse-compounded-by-barclaysukhelp-%E2%80%8F-bank-complicity-%E2%80%93-coming-soon-a_gentle_woman/
      • 0 replies
    • The FSA has announced large fines against DB UK Bank Limited (trading as DB Mortgages) - DeutscheBank and also against Redstone for their unfair treatment of their customers.
      Please see the links below for summaries and full details from the FSA website.
      It is now completely clear that any arrears charges which exceed actual administrative costs are unfair and therefore unlawful.
      Furthemore, irresponsible lending practices are also unfair and unlawful.
      Additionally there are other unfair practices including unarranged counsellor visits - even if they have been attempted.
      You are entitled to refuse counsellor visits and not incur any charges.
      Any charges for counsellor visits must not seek to make profits. The cost of the visits must be passed on to you at cost price.
      We are hearing stories of people being charged for counsellor visits for which there is no evidence that they were even attempted.
      It is clear that some mortgage lenders are trying to cheat you out of your money.
      You should ascertain how much has been taken from you and claim it back. The chances of winning are better than 90%. It is highly likely that the lender will attempt to avoid court action and offer you back your money.
      However, you should ensure that you receive a proper rate of interest and this means that you should be seeking at least restitutionary damages - which would be much higher than the statutory 8%.
      Furthermore, you should assess whether the paying of demands for unlawful excessive charges has also out you further into arrears and if this has caused you further penalties in terms of extra interest or any other prejudice. This should be claimed as well.
      If excessive unlawful charges have resulted in your credit file being affected, then you should take this into account also when working out exactly what you want by way of remedy from the lender.
      You should consult others on these forums when considering any offer.
      You must not make any complaint through the Ombudsman. your time will be wasted, you will wait up to 2 yrs and there will be a minimal 8% award of interest and no account will be taken of any other damage you have suffered.
      You must make your complaint through the County Court for a rapid and effective remedy.

      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2010/120.shtml
      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/redstone.pdf
      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/db_uk.pdf
       
      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/firmnews/2011/db_mortgages.shtml
      Do you have a mortage arears claim to make? Then post your story on the forum here
        • Like
      • 0 replies
    • 30 Day Right To Reject - Vehicle Casualty Report. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/415585-30-day-right-to-reject-vehicle-casualty-report/
      • 57 replies
×
×
  • Create New...