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wendie

Help False MOT claim by Mercedes on Approved Used Mercedes - Drove car without valid insurance as a result

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Help,

 

Please can anyone advise me where to turn to.

I bought a 3 year old approved used Mercedes from a Mercedes dealership on Dec 22nd 2017.

I was told verbally that the car was being MOTed the day prior to my picking it up and I was giving paperwork listing the MOT date as Dec 22nd 2017 - Dec 22nd 2018.

 

I was overseas for a while in Sept / Oct and left the car in airport parking.

Whilst I was away my car was damaged with some scratching to the bumper.

 

I returned to the UK and amongst the admin I had was a reminder for taxing my car.

When I tried to do this I realised my car had no MOT.

 

After multiple enquires with the dealership I have only been able to establish that the MOT expired in April 2018 and no one is able to tell me how this happened.

To make matters difficult the dealership I bought from has changed ownership and the car was actually supposed to be MOTed in a different dealership as the car was not located at my local branch when I enquired about it.

 

I have written confirmation from the dealership I bought from that the MOT expired in April 2018 and an apology.

I raised a complaint with Mercedes asking for an investigation and hoping to find out what had happened and ideally correct the issue if it was an admin issue.

 

I have got nowhere, Mercedes customer service immediately sent me a final response saying there was no harm caused.

I pointed out I could not claim for the damage in caused in airport parking as I had effectively been uninsured.

I also pointed out that I was very worried about the fact i had unknowingly been driving uninsured for several months.

 

I got another final response which was very rude and again closed the matter.

I asked to speak to the person who was writing these emails and they have refused my calls.

I have written again and got another response saying Mercedes maintain there position

- I do not understand what this position is.

 

I am bewildered by all of this.

I have written to the ombudsman but I think this process takes a while.

 

Can anyone help me, do I have any legal rights here.

I have documents saying my car had an MOT until Dec 2018 when I purchased it but it only had an MOT until April 2018.

If I had been in serious at fault accident I would have been uninsured, if this had involved a personal injury claim I could have lost my house and if I was prosecuted for driving without insurance I would have been suspended for a minimum of 6 months from my job. I have not yet managed to sort out the damage to my car as I haven't resolved this issue so my insurance is still invalid.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!!!

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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Please name the dealership. We can check and see if they have a history of this. False MOT is a very serious offence

 

To make matters difficult the dealership I bought from has changed ownership

 

Do some digging. This usually happens with dodgy dealerships


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Going to the Ombudsman was a mistake unfortunately.

At best they would tell Mercedes to give you £40 for an mot, but from experience they'll probably tell Mercedes that they should behave better in future and that's it.

If your insurance doesn't want to pay out because of no mot, they would probably also try to cancel your insurance giving you a bad mark for life .

To prevent this, I would contact the insurance and let them know that you don't want to claim and your car is now mot'd (you have done it I suppose).

Give them all evidence that you were sold the car with mot until December 2018 and hopefully they'll forget about it.

Then I would sue Mercedes for the damage.

Now, this would be a long stretch to get a judgement against them when they're not responsible for the damage, so you have to word your claim very carefully highlighting that you are after your loss which is a direct consequence of their mistake in the paperwork.

Would be great to get something in writing from your Insurance saying that they won't accept your claim, but don't push your luck with them, try to keep them sweet.

Another completely different approach would be to go after your insurance as clearly whether you have mot or not, if your car is hit while parked that wo build make no difference.

Of course if you rear ended someone because your brakes failed, they would be right in blaming the lack of mot, but this is not your case.

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Hello, thanks for the reply.

 

I have to admit I don't hold out much hope with the Ombudsman. I actually haven't contacted my insurance as I don't want to have a denied claim on my insurance record and am worried that no matter how much evidence I could provide to the insurer it would never really leave my record.

 

I have indeed had the MOT done as soon as I realised. The damage is superficial scratches to the bumper, I don't yet know what it will cost me but I think I will just be paying for this myself.

 

I am just so surprised by Mercedes response, this might be a simple error but instead of talking to me they are refusing to speak to me, refusing to investigate my concerns and have been so rude to me by email. I bought from a Mercedes dealership as I thought I was likley to at lower risk of the problems of dodgy car sales practices.

 

Can I sue Mercedes, this is one of things I am trying to work out, any ideas what the law says on giving paperwork claiming a false MOT expiry date when selling a used car? Is this a consumer act law?? Is there precedent for this?

What is possibly a separate issue is that I have had a couple of issues with the electrics and now I am worried that there were no proper checks done on the car before I bought it, if they didn't MOT the car what else did they not do?

All very frustrating.

 

Thank you for your time in replying!

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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The dealership was Mercedes Portsmouth. I think they must be franchised hence the change of ownership. The car was a used approved car and was actually located at Mercedes Blackburn, this was the location who were supposed to do the MOT. I was told it would have the MOT there and then be brought down to Portsmouth for me to pick it up. I assumed this is what happened given the fact I was told this, it added a day or two to wait before I could get the car and I was given paperwork with the MOT dates on it when I did pick up the car.

 

Whilst trying to get to the bottom of this I have been told that whilst they have not changed ownership at Mercedes Blackburn the manager has changed and apparently this is why they can not tell me what happened in regards to the MOT. This seems a bit odd to me but Mercedes keep sending me emails saying that my complaint is closed and are actually refusing to take my calls.

 

Thank you for your reply.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Going to the Ombudsman was a mistake unfortunately.

At best they would tell Mercedes to give you £40 for an mot, but from experience they'll probably tell Mercedes that they should behave better in future and that's it.

.

 

No they wouldnt. Especially if the MOT was faked. Documents produced, but nothing recorded by vosa


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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The dealership was Mercedes Portsmouth. I think they must be franchised hence the change of ownership. The car was a used approved car and was actually located at Mercedes Blackburn, this was the location who were supposed to do the MOT. I was told it would have the MOT there and then be brought down to Portsmouth for me to pick it up. I assumed this is what happened given the fact I was told this, it added a day or two to wait before I could get the car and I was given paperwork with the MOT dates on it when I did pick up the car.

Whilst trying to get to the bottom of this I have been told that whilst they have not changed ownership at Mercedes Blackburn the manager has changed and apparently this is why they can not tell me what happened in regards to the MOT. This seems a bit odd to me but Mercedes keep sending me emails saying that my complaint is closed and are actually refusing to take my calls.

Thank you for your reply.

 

Do you have any documents to support the date they said of an MOT? OR did you just take them at their word? Did they advertise it with a brand new MOT?


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I have a document that lists the MOT as being valid from 23/12/2017 to 22/12/2018 as well as another document which states that all Used Approved Mercedes come with at least 9months MOT. Have attached a copy of relevant part, for some reason comes up as a small image but I think when clicked on is readable.

Thanks!

 

MOT.jpeg

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Do you have any OFFICIAL paperwork that states the MOT. Theyve already messed up big time by selling a car and stating it has a brand new MOT on it when it doesnt. If they gave you official documentation but it wasnt legit... theyre in MAJOR trouble.

 

Right now... you can have them for misselling you the vehicle


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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This is a screen grab from the Purchase Confirmation Document which I got along with the invoice. I haven't included the whole document as it has my personal details on. Its not an MOT certificate but its the official purchase documentation for the car.

The service manager at the dealership has also said in an email:

 

Thank you for taking me through things.

It is my understanding that the MOT ran out on your car in April 2018. Naturally I apologise that this happened and fully understand the issues that this could has caused.

 

I don't understnad why Mercedes central complaints won't talk to me or where I go from here.

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This should be relatively straightforward but also very interesting.

 

Please read here https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?492059-Bahn-de-Loco2-Advertising-a-Train-that-doesn-t-exist&p=5167005&viewfull=1#post5167005

and monitor this thread for a fuller reply later.


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Some of your story is a bit of a garble.

 

Has the dealership you bought the vehicle from, changed? or is it just the manager?

 

Who are we dealing with here?

 

I think that you are in a very powerful position if the dealership is the same. The CPUT regs have been amended to allow a private right of action. A successful action under CPUT would produce a judgment which could then be referred to Trading Standards who would be bound to pursue the matter. You also have an action for breach of contract.

 

If the dealership has changed then it could be problematic and we would have to understand the relationship with Mercedes.

 

Next, we need to understand what your losses might be. This could be tricky but if you can establish the liability of the dealership or of Mercedes then they might feel quite generous in an attempt to avoid a judgment under CPUT. That would be quite serious for them - a judgment for breach of contract would mean nothing to them.

 

Please can you clarify the supplier/dealership query


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also I don't understand why you went to an ombudsman. Which ombudsman???


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I am not sure why you are asking about suing Mercedes. It is nothing to do with them other than giving their name to the supposed Aproved used car scheme. Your beef is with the dealership in Portsmouth as the retailer. Do not be fobbed off by 'central complaints', they are only interested in complaints about the actual vehicle, not the contract that you had when buying the vehicle.


My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the star. Thank you

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I am not sure why you are asking about suing Mercedes. It is nothing to do with them other than giving their name to the supposed Aproved used car scheme. Your beef is with the dealership in Portsmouth as the retailer. Do not be fobbed off by 'central complaints', they are only interested in complaints about the actual vehicle, not the contract that you had when buying the vehicle.

 

Partly correct. However, any franchise use of a franchisor trademark will always include rights of the franchisor to monitor and to enforce quality of the product and probably also of the service which is ostensibly being provided in their name. One might be able to point at a failure of quality control but in order to do this one would have to examine the relationship - as I have suggested above. Probably quite tricky to do and I wouldn't relish it.


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Well, good thing you didn't contact your insurance.

Don't tell them anything.

If it's only superficial scratches, suck up the loss yourself for now, much cheaper than a claim record or insurance void.

With regards to the dealer, I agree with previous post, Mercedes only give their name and if the dealer has changed hands, practically the entity you bought the car from doesn't exist anymore (a bit of research needed here) so you can't claim anything from them.

Regarding the damage, did you report it to the airport parking company?

Even though if you have enough evidence you could claim off them, there's a risk that they would inform your insurance.

Given all of the above, regarding the damage I would personally fix it myself and forget about it.

Then regarding the fake record of mot in your sale receipt, you need to try and grab Mercedes attention, maybe by disclosing your story on social media and letting them know.

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The OP bought the vehicle from Mercedes Portsmouth but the vehicle came from Mercedes Blackburn. Mercedes Blackburn in writing stated that the vehicle would have a MOT, but this did not happen. However the selling dealer Mercedes Portsmouth should have checked that the vehicle had a MOT for longer than 9 months. Mercedes Portsmouth are the selling dealer and not Blackburn or Mercedes themselves therefore the issue is with Mercedes Portsmouth and no one else as your contract is with them.

At a stretch under CRA 2015 this would be an inherent "fault" and the vehicle could be rejected as the vehicle is not as described and was not fit for purpose. The problem here is the losses you have suffered and proving any as you do not want to claim off the insurance company. The vehicle now has a MOT so is roadworthy again and in the meantime you never collected any tickets that you know of.

You may have to write this one off to one of life's experiences.

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I don't know why I thought it was Plymouth. You were right of course, it is Portsmouth.

I think we need to wait for the OP to engage with this thread and give us all the proper information


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As a point of clarification, Mercedes Portsmouth is part of the Marshall Motor Group, part of Marshall Motor Holdings plc. Originally Marshalls of Cambridge. Registered Office - Airport House, The Airport, Cambridge, CB5 8RY.

 

The CEO is Daksh Gupta


My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the star. Thank you

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Im glad no one is overacting at all here, in any way.

 

This is merely an admin error at the supplying dealers end (which it sounds like doesn't exsist now anyway, at least in the same ownership).

 

How much is your insurance excess? The trade cost of painting an entire cars bumper (notr smart repair) is £120, even if you said retail was £250 its surely less than your insurance excess. As the owner of the vehicle it is you alone who is responsible for ensuring the vehicle is road legal.

 

Sure, it sounds like MB 'owe' you an MOT. All this talk about accidents that could have happened has nothing to do with anything.

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I think that this laid-back attitude is rather unhelpful. We all know what insurance do when suddenly a risk is incurred and also we all know what action the police take when it turns out that someone is uninsured even if it is not their own fault.

 

This is a serious matter and it needs to be taken seriously.

 

The OP has been very lucky, all things considered

  • Confused 1

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Thank you for all the responses. My apologies if my situation was unclear, this is possibly in part due to the fact that I am still trying to work it out!. Surfer01 you have summarised brilliantly for me.

 

Surfer0f

Re: Help False MOT claim by Mercedes on Approved Used Mercedes - Drove car without valid insurance as a result

The OP bought the vehicle from Mercedes Portsmouth but the vehicle came from Mercedes Blackburn. Mercedes Blackburn in writing stated that the vehicle would have a MOT, but this did not happen. However the selling dealer Mercedes Portsmouth should have checked that the vehicle had a MOT for longer than 9 months. Mercedes Portsmouth are the selling dealer and not Blackburn or Mercedes themselves therefore the issue is with Mercedes Portsmouth and no one else as your contract is with them.

 

I bought the car from Mercedes Portsmouth (I went into the dealership looked at models they had there but then choose one from the online listing). It was located at Mercedes Blackburn. It was the Mercedes Portsmouth sales man who informed me the car would be MOTed then shipped down to Portsmouth. Mercedes claimed then and still claim all used approved come with at least 9 months MOT. I was told verbally and when I paid for the car I was given a document labelled purchase confirmation which is essentially an extended invoice on that document it says the car has an MOT from 22/12/17 to 23/12/18. I was also given another document saying that as with all used approved Mercedes the car would have at least a 9 month MOT, this was sort of a tick box document for part of the sale, the box for greater than 9 month MOT was ticked the purchase invoice says from Dec 2017 - 2018. I never spoke to Blackburn directly. It is my understanding that Portsmouth ownership has changed. I was told the manager at Blackburn had changed and this was part of the reason that no information on my cars supposed MOT could be found (this sounded odd but this is part of the problem I can't get any information).

 

I appreciate the time of everyone who has replied to advise me. I work long hours so only just had a chance to read through. I take all comments onboard including the fact I may be overreacting but I am just trying to get to the bottom of this and using the usual customer complaints route has not worked. It may well be an admin error, it might be that Mercedes in Blackburn who were supposed to have MOTed the car failed to update the government central database. I have asked Mercedes Portsmouth (the purchase retailer) and Mercedes central this multiple times and I have been told that due to the time elapse between Dec 2017 and the time of my question Nov 19th 2018 the records have been archived and they can not answer this question. I have this in writing from Mercedes Portsmouth. Mercedes central are just saying that they consider the matter closed with no answer provided to my questions and telling me I have to talk to the Ombudsman.

 

It is has someone has pointed caused out relatively little harm but I am a doctor and as for many other professions and an non speeding motoring offences can have a career effect. In my situation non speeding offences are reportable to the General Medical Council who have a reputation for acting first and getting the facts latter. Most motoring offences by doctors result in some sort of investigation which at best would stay on record as not being compliant with GMC rules (these stretch beyond clinic practice). I did actually get a speeding ticket whilst I had no MOT, I was in roadworks on the motorway, I have since done a speed awareness course as no previous points and so far nothing has come of this but technically at this time my car had no provable MOT but there is now both proof of my being on the road (fine and camera) and proof of the MOT gap (government database).

 

Regarding the damage I suspect I will just have to fix this myself. My car is a SLK, I think it may be a little more than £120, Mercedes Portsmouth have hinted at a lot more but to me these look superficial. Anyway I had anticipated this pretty much from the start however Mercedes centrals immediate and final response when I raised the MOT issue without mentioning the bumper damage was no harm no foul and to close the response, I wasn't happy this was a sufficient explanation and and I wanted to highlight that actually this did have implications, both the ones described above some of which I acknowledge are theoretical and the implications for this minor damage in regards to my insurance.

 

I did ask about sueing Mercedes but to be honest I don't want to sue anyone I just want someone at Mercedes to listen to me and to investigate this. I don't understand why they can't find out what happened in Blackburn. I have asked about the legal issues around this in the hope that if for instance there was a law whereby garages that do MOTs have to store records for x amount of years or for instance that selling a car with incorrect MOT paperwork was breaking a law I would be able to use this to force Mercedes into looking into the matter. I note the comment about what my losses would be and the answer is probably not very much. There has been the fact I had to rearrange work to get the urgent MOT, the damage I can not claim but th problem is more the uncertainty this has now created in regards to what is on record and what other pre sales servicing might have been skipped.

 

I may have to chalk this up to one of life experiences but it doesn't feel fair (I know lifes not!) but at the moment I am still keen to try and get this investigated so that if the car genuinely was MOTed the government database can be updated to reflect this as there is evidence I drove from April - Sept as I got a speeding fine. Or if my car did not have an MOT then I would like to know why and if any other pre sales servicing was skipped.

 

I didn't mention in my original post as it was already somewhat convoluted but my other issue is that 8 days after I bought the car the electrics went haywire, they have done this twice since, plus the keys came with mechanical keys which didn't fit the car so actually 8 days after buying it it locked me out completely (somewhat ridiculous at the time having to phone work to say I would be late as my own car had locked me out and maybe a harbinger of things to come!) Anyway when I started looking into the MOT issue I realised that the chip on the windscreen I noticed a few weeks after buying is mentioned on the April 2017 MOT on the gov website. All minor stuff, Mercedes have checked out the electrics, nothing found yet. Its just got me wondering, if they didn't MOT the car, what other inspections did they not do before I bought this car and if now being out of warranty I start to get some issues I would have preferred to pushed to have this investigated. Again I am not seeking monetary recompense just answers.

 

Thank you for the CEO of Marshall group details. When I purchased the car it was a different owner, I don't know if they have to honour the purchases in the same way?? Until this all started I had thought Mercedes was Mercedes, hence perhaps my lack of clarity on previous posts.

 

In regards to going to an ombudsman Mercedes Central closed my complaint and advised that if I was dissatisfied I should approach the motoring ombudsman that is who I have written to. I think there response time is 6-8 weeks.

 

Again thank you for all the comments, hopefully my response offers some clarification. Be kind please, I have had some very rude replies from Mercedes already suggesting I am money grabbing, I am not, I just want an explanation.

 

Thank you!

Edited by wendie

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