Future Comms mobile contract - joseph Stickler

[BankFodder]

Well it's very lucky that you've been here since 2009 because you are completely familiar with our standard advice to recording your calls. Because you have recorded the calls that were made and all the things they said to you, there should be very little difficulty showing what they promised you and how they have broken those promises.

 

This is a good start.

 

Regardless of the Ofcom rules – and regardless of the particular consumer regulations which would offer you extra protection, you are still protected by the law of contract.

 

I notice that you say that you've never before been locked into something without a clear written contract. I don't really understand why you've allowed it to happen this time.

 

Although you have had a bad experience so far – can you confirm that the service is now working correctly or are there still ongoing problems?

 

I suppose that you had your original telephone number ported to the new service. It may be that if you eventually extract yourself from this contract, that you may lose your number and have to start again. Is having a new telephone number going to cause you any problems?

[BankFodder]

You haven't answered the very important question – is everything now working satisfactorily or are there any ongoing problems – and by this I mean in terms of your telephone and the quality of your telephone service – everything you have bought from them?

[BankFodder]

The get out will be if they breach their contract in some way – and particularly in respect of the telephone or the quality of the service.

 

I haven't completely followed everything you said here – have you got evidence of their promises to refund you money, give you a better deal, et cetera?

[BankFodder]

If you can point to a clear term of your contract – which was agreed verbally or in writing – and for which you have evidence, and if you can show that that contractual term has been breached so that it has fundamentally undermined the purpose of the contract for you then you would be entitled to resile from the contract.

 

The real problem here is that you walked into this and you haven't followed the sensible advice which we have been giving for years and that is to record your calls. I know that you seem to be saying that you didn't expect this – but that is precisely why we tell people to routinely record their calls. You will regret it if you don't – and in fact I'm sure that you are regretting it.

 

Although it's a bit late in the day, I would suggest that you change your approach to business and generally to the people you deal with on the phone and install a call recorder and start recording everything. That is the only way to protect yourself. Read our customer services guide. It's all there. Thousands of people read it - but I have just checked and I see that you haven't.

 

We can help you if you can produce evidence of the contract. Have you tried sending them an SAR?

[BankFodder]

If you have an android phone then it's a snap. If you have an iPhone – then get an android phone.

 

I suggest that you get a call recorder working and then you might try telephoning them and see whether you can get them to say things which would repeat or confirm what you feel that you had originally agreed.

 

If you've got an iPhone you can also try a TP seven or TP eight – have a look at the customer services guide.

[BankFodder]

In that case, if they are going to call you you should have your call recorder installed and you should know how to use it. This means practising.

 

Then when they call you, you should keep the conversation very calm and nonthreatening and try to lead them gently through what they promised so that they basically repeat or confirm the promises that were made – even if they then make excuses as to why it hasn't happened or how it will eventually happen.

 

As per our customer services guide, if you manage to get this kind of recording then you should store it safely – in at least two different places – and also make notes of it.

 

I would then follow up by sending them a recorded delivery letter confirming the conversation – but without referring to any call recording.

 

Then come back here

[BankFodder]

... an app like “TapeACall” (or its alternative competitors) allows easy & high quality call recording on the iPhone.

...

... when (for most networks) they clearly can.

 

That's jolly good then.

[BankFodder]

ok. This is very interesting that it appears that you have signed as a director because that you are not a director. You are a sole trader.

 

You say that you signed electronically. Can you tell us about that. Do you mean that you used a digital copy of your handwritten signature?

[BankFodder]

Ok. I think we can help you. I have to give it some thought and I am away at the moment and am using a mobile phone.

[BankFodder]

I now understand a little better the sequence of events which leads to the creation of a "contract" with Future Comms.

 

I gather that they buy list of contact details from somewhere or other. They then call businesses and persuade them to agree to terminate their existing mobile phone contracts and to enter into a brokered contract through Future Comm.

 

As far as I can gather, there is no opportunity to read or to consult the terms and conditions. Future Comms gets the verbal agreement of the new client and then sends some kind of app using a facility called Adobe Sign down onto the new client's mobile phone which them presents a signature space on the mobile phone screen. The new client signs with their finger. Amazingly, the signature is then applied in at least four places to various documents which the new client may or may not have seen – I'm not too sure yet – but which do not contain the terms and conditions although they do refer to a web page containing the terms and conditions. Of course it's entirely impractical for the new client to have interrupted the process and to have looked through the terms and conditions and to read them and to have understood them. On the information I have, I think that it is likely that the new client is signed up without having been given an opportunity to look at the terms and conditions. Also, on the information that I have, the new client is not aware that their digital signature will be captured and then replicated.

 

Why does the potential client agreed to give up their existing mobile phone contract? Well firstly it seems that Future Comms undertakes to repay the new client their termination fees which can be quite substantial depending on the amount of time left on the original contract. I understand also that there are various rebates which are promised but this is to be some confusion as to whether these are promised throughout the life of the contract or during only the first 12 months of the 36 month contract.

Whatever the case, in the documentation that I have seen, the refund of the termination fee and also the payment of rebates doesn't appear to be described or even mentioned and it almost seems as if it is simply a verbal undertaking – not that that is any less binding – but it becomes a little bit more difficult to establish.

 

Also it seems that the timescale for payment of the termination fee and of any rebates is unclear. If one looks at the Future Comms contract there seems to be quite strict deadlines and windows and it seems that you are required to invoice the company for your rebate at certain periods during the contract and that it may be that you only have a 14 day window to provide an invoice for the rebate after which you lose your right to the rebate. If this is correct then it is really quite extraordinary.

 

Looking at Trust Pilot, there are certainly a lot of very favourable reviews. In fact I would go as far as to say that there are a lot of effusive reviews. However, about 30% of the reviews are extremely poor and they all seem to be complaining about the same thing which is basically the problem of getting your promised money out of future comms.

 

That's my rough view of the situation so far.

 

Things that I don't like include –

replicated signature

lack of opportunity to read and understand terms and conditions

vagueness over repayment and dates of termination fees and rebates

apparently very stringent timescales for claiming rebates

substantial number of very unhappy people who have posted up on Trustpilot, Google and elswhere – broadly tending to complain about one or two issues in common.

 

If anyone would like to clarify or correct any of the points in my understanding above then these do so.

 

I notice that future comms are pretty active in responding to some of the reviews on trust pilot and if they would like to make some comments here then of course they would be very welcome.

[BankFodder]

More of the same from money saving expert https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5774237

 

Yell.com https://www.yell.com/biz/future-comms-gosport-8728979/

 

Trustpilot - https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.future-comms.co.uk

 

Google - https://www.google.com/search?q=future+comms+mobile+reviews&oq=future+comms&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l3j69i57j35i39.5078j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#lpqa=d,3,a,AIe9_BGvUJd9etQojwpjZIMsiFnekm9gp9zg4xNmvhXLJzkyFnZG7HgsC6-pGhUJ1RbZ_5cerDOECIWMfXBrD4uUCd_IkOftCZRbBFRIyOxOXgLKqMhczr1j5eYZm17Hx6k0LmFdGcnx

 

Who calls me - https://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/02393873344

[BankFodder]

By the way I have been asked to explain a little bit about the various contractual relationships within this agreement.

 

So far as I can gather, your deal with Future Comms is simply to allow them to conduct the termination of your contract with the existing supplier and then to organise the introduction to your new supplier which seems normally to be O2.

 

Your principal contract is with O2 and they are the airtime providers. They are responsible for the quality of the service et cetera. Because Future Comms obviously get some kind of commission from O2 for introducing you, they then share some of that commission with you – apparently in the first year – and after that they attempt to renegotiate further commitments from you in respect of O2 – presumably for which they get further commission.

 

I would say that the contract with Future Comms is an ancillary contract but it is certainly not a contract which represents the fundamental purpose or benefit to the customer of the agreement.

 

If you have any complaints about the quality of service – or about the way that you are being treated by Future Comms then I would advise that people should involve O2 as closely as they can. I would suggest this because I expect that O2 wants a trouble-free life and doesn't want to hear about all the problems that people might be experiencing with Future Comms. Future comms are probably anxious that you don't trouble the airtime provider because part of their setup is probably geared up to take some of the flak and if problems and complaints are made directly to O2 then eventually O2 becomes unhappy with Future Comms and eventually they may be less likely to use them as a commission-earning introducer.

 

Therefore if you are seriously unhappy with Future Comms the best way to stir it up is to go to O2. However, people who have problems with future comms such as not getting their money in time or not knowing where they stand should certainly come here for advice and I would urge those unhappy customers to take a very robust approach to Future Comms which means being very quick to issue a small claims action in the County Court.

 

This is the way to ensure an improvement in quality in these kinds of service providers.

[BankFodder]

Okay, send them a letter before claim and give them 14 days for you will sue for the money, interest and court fees and without any further notice.

 

Yes, late payments are certainly breach of contract and I think that they have had long enough with you.

 

Can you just outline again what they owe you, and since when.

[BankFodder]

You are entitled to treat a contract is terminated if the other sides breach undermines the purpose of the contract.

 

You could be in a slightly difficult find here because the purpose of the contract is really to provide you with a communication service – and the problem is that despite the fact that they owe you certain payments, it might be difficult to argue that you have been deprived of the benefit of the contract.

 

Am I right in remembering that in fact there contract says that your service contract is with O2 and that your contract with them is ancillary in some way?

[BankFodder]

Yes. This is a bit complicated.

 

From the sounds of it, your contract with O2 is safe. If you managed to extract yourself from the contract with Future Comms then it should have no impact on the O2 contract.

 

If you are paying O2 directly, then surely if you stop paying future comms, O2 would not have any reason to complain against you because you would still be up-to-date with their own bill. Is this correct?

 

Also, as far as I can see, future comms are not doing anything more for you. Of course they are meant to pay you back some money – but they aren't actually providing any further service to you. Is that correct?

[BankFodder]

You are in rather a strange position. I can see that Future Comms have a fantastic thing going here. I suppose they get some deal from O2 whereby they are able to broker a contract and share a bit of the commission they receive with you as a sweetener.

 

You are receiving substantially the whole benefit of the contract – which is the communication service. Your ancillary contract with Future Comms has been fully completed by them except to the extent that they have to give you your cut every month and of course the termination fee. But actually even if they breach the contract, you have no basis for terminating the agreement because they have fully carried out the main purpose of the contract which was to introduce you to O2 and to get you a deal.

 

At the moment I can't see a way that you can escape being locked into here for three years. However you can make life tough for them.

 

Although it's going to be a nuisance, you may as well make it a bit sporty. You've already suggested making repeat court claims – and I think that that is probably the way to go for the moment. Also, you need to involve O2 closely and to make life as difficult for them as possible. Future comms very clearly depend on their goodwill as a business partner and if you can disrupt that then that will put additional pressure on Future Comms

 

Can you just lay out what payments they have missed so far and the dates that those payments were missed.

[BankFodder]

You might like to telephone the court and see if you can get a copy of the judgement in this case.

 

There may be other judgements under variations of their formal registered name.

 

If you able to get some clue as to the identity of the claimant, you might be able to contact them and find out what it was about.

afff6bf9-d923-410d-b836-e809e8568ead_Redacted.pdf

[BankFodder]

Please can you address the questions I asked you in post 33.

 

As I said, I can imagine that there are other outstanding judgements but they may be actions which have been started against the same claimant but in a different name. Technically speaking that would not be possible – but it does actually happen quite a lot.

[BankFodder]

The judgement should be a public document although the court may be reluctant to let you have it – but you should press for it – gently and politely.

 

You say that you know somebody else who is having problems with this company and he was taking it lying down. Why don't you bring them here because it will be very helpful if we can start to get an accumulation of people with similar complaints.

[BankFodder]

Well I suggest that you begin now. I suggest that you send them a letter before action giving them 14 days to pay the money they are you so far or else you will start legal action and without any further notice.

 

Just send them that short note and see what happens. On day 15 issue the claim. Register with the money claim online website and have a look and get used to it. It's very easy. We will help you draft the particulars. It will be very short.

 

Every time they accept exceed the due payment date by a single day, send them a letter before action.

 

If you're lucky you will be able to get a few cases started against them and each time you will recover your money plus your court fees.

 

Either they will learn a lesson in your case and stop paying you properly – or else eventually you may attempt to invoke paragraph 5.2.1 of the terms and conditions:

 

5.2 Either party shall be entitled forthwith to suspend and/or terminate this

Agreement by giving written notice to the other if:

5.2.1 the other commits a continuing or material breach of this

Agreement and, if the breach is capable of remedy, fails to remedy

it within 14 days (but 7 days in the case of failure by the Customer

to pay the Charges) after receipt of a written notice giving full

particulars of the breach and requiring it to be remedied;

 

http://future-comms.co.uk/terms.pdf

 

Which I'm sure you would have to do by means of a court action – but if you start to have a pattern of non-payment and payment only on the issue of court papers together with other evidence that you can get from abound the Internet and particularly if you can get other people to write you statements as to their own experience, then I think that you may able to make some headway.

 

I see no reason why you should have to tolerate any further delays with the company with this kind of record. Issue the claim and see what happens. When the date falls for the payment of the termination fee, if that is exceeded then do exactly the same thing. Be relentless

 

Does that interest you?

[BankFodder]

I suggest that you send them this tomorrow morning.

 

Just send it by all email. Get a certificate of posting.

 

Dear Sir/Mdm

 

Letter of claim

 

As you know you are contracted (reference number) to return a "cashback" payment to me every month in respect of my contract with the O2 mobile telephone services company.

 

You have now missed two payments which were due on XXX date and XXX date. It is clear from a mere cursory research of the Internet that these kind of delays are part of your business model.

 

If you do not let me have the payments due to me within 14 days I will issue a county court claim against you for the outstanding sums, interest, and court fees and without any further notice.

 

Yours faithfully

 

I suggest that you send this in respect of the two missing payments so far. When the date for the third payment is exceeded by a single day, send another letter before action – et cetera.

 

Threaten and begin an action in respect of each delayed payment if they failed to respond in a timely fashion to your letter of claim.

 

Start accumulating screenshots of people with similar complaints around the Internet. Make sure you get a good collection of these.

 

Do your best to contact other people in the same boat. Bring them here.

 

Don't announce yet that you are beginning a legal action – but if they don't pay up and you do issue the papers – then announce it everywhere you can and tell people to come here.

[BankFodder]

Find a way to publicise and bring people to this forum so that we can encourage them to bring their own actions as well.

 

However, don't publicise that you are bringing an action until you have issued the papers. It will be much better for you if you can actually get round to beginning the action before they understand that this is serious and it really will happen.

[BankFodder]

Get him to post on the Facebook group as well. I'm a bit surprised that no one else has joined yet.

[BankFodder]

I am in the very same shoes... an idiot falling for BS--- exactly the mirror of the situation my fees are 39.60 as well signing up very beginning of December and I tried to cancel within a few days as well

the terms are a joke there is for example a reference for a point 5.3 when there is no 5.3

I was rushed as well and feel completely conned. I still can't believe I fell for it as generally I am not this type of person like at all.

 

Welcome to the forum. Please will you start a new thread of your own.

 

It will be less confusing for people who want to help you and also it will make it clearer to Google and to anyone else that there are problems with this company Future Comms

[BankFodder]

Do I understand that you haven't sent your letter of claim?