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Thanks for your thoughts shamrocker. Note that they did previously offer me a full an final discount of about 20% which was ignored.

I'm going to submit the defence. If I do offer a full and final, when would be the best timing to do that?

 

Definitely submit a defence.

This is what will make them take note of potential work and costs to take this forward.

Don't submit the defence until you post it here first for feedback.

 

The timing is up to you, but I'd suggest that Mediation stage is the first opportunity to try them with something.

After that, I'd personally leave it until about three weeks before witness statements are supposed to be submitted.

 

You're looking to make them take a commercial view of it, so hit them before they've started working on the case properly, but at a time where they're mindful that work will have to be done pretty soon (and costs incurred).

 

They'll also be aware of your challenge on any default charges, which will erode their claim further.

It's just a case of making them question the worth of taking it all the way.

Others will advise differently, but the above is aimed at obtaining maximum gain for least amount of effort.

 

That said, they still need to comply in respect of serving a valid DN.

 

You'll probably not know much about this until they serve their WS,

by which time it may no longer be the best time to negotiate the best deal,

and you'll also have to go through the hassle of writing a WS yourself.

 

They might even trip up at that stage.

All ifs and buts.

 

It's a bit like a game of poker in some ways

- and you just need to decide on how best to play your hand.

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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Happy new year all.

 

Could you please check over my proposed defence? Note some dates hidden/replaced with ***

 

 

Particulars of Claim (for reference only)

 

1. The claimant claims the sum of (£2700) for an outstanding debt owed. On (02/2008) the defendant entered into an agreement with MBNA Europe Bank Ltd. for a credit card under reference ---------.

 

2. On (04/2012) the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £8000.

 

3. On 06/2012 the debt of £7900 was assigned to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS, Oslo, Zug Branch, who itself assigned the debt to PRA Group (UK) Ltd on 12/2014. Notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

 

4. Payments of £5200 were received up to (7/2017) and the claimant claims 1. The sum of £2700

 

 

Proposed Defence

 

1. The Defendant contends that the Particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out his case below and relies on Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2.Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with MBNA. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim. The Defendant has sought verification from the Claimant who as of this date has been unable to comply.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall the exact date or nature of any breach or service of a default notice pursuant to sec87(1) CCA1974. Therefore, I have sought clarity by way of a CPR 31.14 request sent signed for on **** and showed as received and signed for at the Claimant’s address on ****. The Claimant has yet to comply with my request. The Claimant in their non-compliance with my request has frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and their non-compliance with pre-action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arises.

 

4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am not aware of any legal assignment to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS in 2012 or Notice of Assignment to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS in 2012 pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1).

 

5. It is therefore at this time denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:

 

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

 

b) show how the Defendant’s alleged debt has reached the amount claimed for; and

 

c) show evidence of any breach and service of a Default Notice sec87(1) and subsequent Notices of Sums in Arrears sec86© in accordance with the consumer credit Act 1974; and

 

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant proves the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7. On the alternative, as the Claimant claims to be an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited by Andyorch
Tweaked points in red

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what about the cca?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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" The PRA group letter on the 12th said, that in response to my query (PAP form)

please find enclosed copy of statement of account from MBNA and a copy of the credit agreement (was an online application 2008) plus statements from the MBNA credit card (virgin). "

 

 

" The credit agreement copy sent to me was very brief with no signature etc. online application box ticked."


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Yes that's right they responded to my CCA in the past and sent me a copy of the last 2 years worth of statements only (2011 to 2012) for virgin/MBNA, not all years, and a generic online application copy.

 

They also sent me recently a copy of a notice of assignment dated 2015 stating that my account was transferred to PRA.

Note that the Particulars of Claim state that my account was assigned to Aktiv Kapital in 2012 (not 2015).

I did not have any notice of that assignment.

So how do I know that PRA actually legally own the debt from 2012?

 

The concerns for my defence above are that:

 

Should I still include this point below, give that they PRA provided a copy of a generic online application and 2 years (only) of MBNA statements?

- or would there be a better defence for this

 

2.Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with MBNA. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim. The Defendant has sought verification from the Claimant who as of this date has been unable to comply.

 

and is this defence point below valid given that they sent me notice of assignment to PRA group in 2015 but nothing regarding notice of assignment to Aktiv Kaptial in 2012 prior to that? Note that all assignments were requested in the PAP response.

 

4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am not aware of any legal assignment to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS in 2012 or Notice of Assignment to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS in 2012 pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1).

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The assignment issue is still valid as you were not informed in 2012...they have to prove a legal assignment from MBNA to Aktiv...they refer to this in their pleadings.

 

With regards to the online application.....have you uploaded this...which post number ?


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Thanks Andy. Yes the PDF is in post #13 of this thread.

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T&Cs refer to a section 4...there isnt one disclosed.

 

Tick box to authenticate your signature unticked......I suspect this is a mish mash copy and paste and the only authentic part of the agreement is your tick box.

 

 

I have tweaked a few points in the defence above marked in red....rest is fine.

 

 

Andy


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That's great, thank you Andy.

 

Should I challenge the agreement in any way or leave the defence as is and only use the missing tick box and section 4 if it gets to the judge in the local country court as part of witness statements etc.

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Pretty much agree.... run with the above......you can elude to the reconstituted being incomplete and let then decipher whats missing in your witness statement...if it gets that far.


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Is it best to submit my defence now ASAP or wait nearer to the 18th Jan to give PRA time to see if they respond to my CPR 31.14?

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as with other threads

it is better to wait.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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FYI, PRA have written stating they have received my defence and written to the court stating they intend to proceed with the claim. No dates yet.

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Allocation next stage .....await your N180 (Directions Questionnaire) and post here for further advice.

 

Andy


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N180 received today

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Use the following to complete on screen run 3 copies.(Court/Claimants Sol/File)

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?406099-LEGAL-N180-Directions-Questionnaire-(Small-Claims-Track)-**Correct-at-Sept-2016**

 

Yes to Mediation

Yes to small claims Track

State your local county court

1 Witness ...you

 

The rest is self explanatory.

 

Andy


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Thanks Andy but that link is not working?

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Fixed


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An update on this. N180s have been filed with the court, awaiting mediation. Not sure how long this usually takes to organise these days?

In the meantime, PRA have sent me a reconstituted default notice. With what look like a super imposed MBNA logo header on the default notice text. The word reconstituted added on top. They also supplied a 2012 letter of assignment to Aktiv Kapital (also looks fake to me) but the court might recognize it.

PRA have asked me to fill in a financial statement and make an affordable offer of repayment in the next 14 days otherwise they will continue to follow the court's directions.

Edited by torch1

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scan it up


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Let them continue to follow the courts directions...time for them to pay the hearing fee 😉


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how much would their hearing fee be?

I could only offer PRA £1 per month for life due to low part time salary and no assets. What documents does the court request when making the judgment on payment amount?

My family may be able to scrape together a F&F of an absolute maximum of 25% of the alleged debt to put this to bed. If so would that better now or at mediation given they don't want to pay the hearing fee.

Edited by torch1

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I think it would be helpful if you gave us more information. We need to know the whole story.

 


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£170.00 for claims up to £3K...I wouldnt worry about payment arrangements just yet...lets see if they proceed the full course


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8 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I think it would be helpful if you gave us more information. We need to know the whole story.

 

Not sure what you want to know. I am working part time only due to illness and renting a room. Not in a good place financially.

Reconstituted Default notice is dated 2011.

Edited by torch1

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