PCN Appeal Rejection - Never Received

[medievil2003]

Hi guys, good morning

 

I have a lease car and got a parking ticket which I promptly appealed, I never heard anything back from the council. It was only until the lease company send me an invoice for £295 that i realised something is wrong and i took this up with the council directly to find out why they never send me the rejection notice. The lease company have paid the council.

 

They replied saying that rejection notice was sent back to them as "returned mail", this is impossible as I get all types of letters come through and even various from the same council.

 

Aside to the obvious of me arguing that I never received the letter, what grounds of arguments do I have? I suspect the council will say they will not refund just on that account.

 

Your advice is appreciated,

 

Many thanks

 

Mehdi

[Jamberson]

You don't have any arguments, I'm afraid. The lease company were the debtors, and they settled their debt to the council. You are being charged by the lease company, so provided they are acting within the terms of the contract, there's nothing you can do.

 

As to why their rejection notice was returned to the council undelivered - it could be one of a number of reasons, but obviously it's not impossible, as you state. For example, the postman may have put it through the wrong door, and it was sent back 'not at this address'. Or maybe they put the wrong door number on it. Who knows? Problem is, you were never the debtor, so they aren't obliged to you.

[medievil2003]

Hi Jamberson, good evening and thank you for your reply.

 

I have spoken to the leasing company today, informing them of what the council have said and they'll investigate - not holding my breath though!

 

Slight change of subject but still relevant, when a letter goes through the return to sender via royal mail, do you know if the envelope will be stamped or similar to say this? I ask because the council sent me a scanned copy of the letter which on the 2nd page is a scan of the envelope, but it's plain, nothing mentioning return to sender.

[ericsbrother]

You should use email when you have a lease car, that cuts out the middle man. If you dotn gte a response you get on the phone and badger them into giving a response or take it unilaterally to the appeals service and use their lack of action as a reason.

[Jamberson]

Slight change of subject but still relevant, when a letter goes through the return to sender via royal mail, do you know if the envelope will be stamped or similar to say this? I ask because the council sent me a scanned copy of the letter which on the 2nd page is a scan of the envelope, but it's plain, nothing mentioning return to sender.

 

There is usually some kind of marking on the envelope, directing the Post Office to return it - but that's not guaranteed. It depends on the circumstances, which we don't know.

 

If the postie can't make the delivery, usually he/she will put a sticker on the envelope, with tick boxes (addressee gone away, no such address, unable to access property, etc) and ticks it to indicate what happened. On the other hand, if it was accidentally put through the wrong house door, the recipient might have just put it back in the post box unmarked.

 

If you are looking to question whether the council ever sent it, I have to be honest and say it's a very doubtful line of argument. Do you know for certain that both sides of the correct envelope were scanned, for example?

 

The obligation on the council is to send notices. They aren't required to ensure you receive them. There's very little doubt that they generated and printed the letter. If they say they posted it to you, I don't really see how you can counter that.

[medievil2003]

So how things have progressed, ever so slightly...

 

I've spoken to Royal mail and they've confirmed that without fail, a sticker or writing will be on the envelope to enable the sorting office or post office to know where and why to route it back. A letter is being sent out from them confirming this.

 

Now, i asked the council again if nothing is on the envelope which they confirmed, but with a broad and sarcastic argument of reply stating we do have a returns address on the bottom left side of the envelope. To which i replied, how would the post office know to send it back to you then.

 

Even if the letter was posted to the wrong address, if they put it back in the post bos surely the post office would send it back out to the address on the front of the envelope?

 

It seems like both the council and lease company are not willing to do anything further but this is not right or fair, both the council and lease company are happy because they've been paid.

 

Can i still raise this to an adjudictor if it's been paid? The council said the matter is closed because payment means accepting liability.

[Michael Browne]

The council said the matter is closed because payment means accepting liability.

They're right. Once paid any appeal avenues are closed.

[medievil2003]

After an email to the council saying how their excuse is stupid and that i will be seeking legal advice, they responded which i do not fully understand

 

"Your enquiry is being dealt as incoming correspondence and case now on hold. A response will be issued within 56 days via post."

 

Maybe this means they're taking it seriously now?

[Michael Browne]

It's almost certainly an auto-response, it doesn't mean they're taking it seriously since so far no human has read your email.

[medievil2003]

oh no, this is definitely not as it came directly from the person i had complained to with their email signature.

[Jamberson]

I've spoken to Royal mail and they've confirmed that without fail, a sticker or writing will be on the envelope to enable the sorting office or post office to know where and why to route it back. A letter is being sent out from them confirming this.

 

Now, i asked the council again if nothing is on the envelope which they confirmed

 

Thereby confirming they have received the post back, correct?