Euro Parking Services - NTD Ashted Lock, Dartmouth Middleway, Birmingham, B7 4AZ

[dx100uk]

snotty insulting letter time

in many threads here already

[Mezzle]

Basic not compliant send me a real one? or full list of what's wrong with it?

[dx100uk]

no the snotty insulting letter.

 

yes insult them

there are numerous such responses here

 

use the search CAG box of the top read toolbar

 

write to gladstones BW

 

or alike

[Mezzle]

I'm awful at being insulting - how about this?

 

Dear Sirs/Madams,

In response to your “Letter before Court Action” sent to me dated the 3rd January, 2019, I was not born yesterday, and will not be paying your demand.

 

There is no liability in this matter, as the signage is prohibitive, and not an offer of contract, so no contract has been breached.

 

In any case, the Protections of Freedom Act limits any charge to the specified sum, so your demand of £160 is complete and utter nonsense.

 

I suggest that you discontinue this action, as any further action will result in cost, rather than gain for yourselves, and I would be minded to claim the breach of the DPA that was the result of you obtaining my keeper details without good cause to do so.

 

 

Faithfully yours[/Quote]

 

Feel free to spice it up for me a bit!

[dx100uk]

that'll do for me.

 

either send it now

or await the Gladstone letter of claim.

[Mezzle]

I can respond to Gladstones when that comes through too though right? Really got some inspiration from ericsbrother for the insults for them

[Mezzle]

Should I sign?

[dx100uk]

are you mad!!

 

print only

[Mezzle]

Done - will pop a stamp on and then... wait till Saturday when I'll be able to get to a post office for Proof of Postage

[renegadeimp]

So they try and say thats a LBA. Wonder if they know they have to send a proper Pre action pack. Not just a simple letter. Even if theyre trying to send it to gladdys, who are woefully inept.

[brassnecked]

They hope the victim is so scared by the letter that they will pay up ASAP, so don't want to waste the paper on a proper pack. Time these PPC's, Gladdys and BW legal were put out of business.

[ericsbrother]

never tell a parking co what is wrong with their duff paperwork, you use that when and if they sue you. they will ahve chucked away another £50 then and it will be too late for them to try and correct their errors.

 

As for the bill going up to £160, ask yourself when did you sign a credit agreement with them?

 

you didnt respond as the driver they have to rely on the POF to create a keeper liability and so the bill is £100 at most. They know this but like all of the other parking co's once someone gets away with a higher charge they all go for it.

 

The BEAVIS decision said that £80 wasn't unconscionable, not that it was a minimum so within a week they were all charging £80 and then within 6 months £100. The trade associations are in effect a cartel but as it is only motorist who are being clobbered then that is OK by the govt

[Mezzle]

Received 2x NTK today. Both are for ones where there was a NTD attached to windscreen - although one wasn't reported on here (I have the original tickets if they're needed)

 

Seems both of them were sent at the same time. Curious to see that they've mentioned a NTD on the front of the page, but also a Notice to Hirer (????) on the reverse.

 

Sorry about the quality - files compressed so I could upload - let me know if you need the uncompressed versions and how best to share

NTK-20181204-redacted-compressed.pdf

NTK-20181210-redacted-compressed.pdf

[ericsbrother]

they just couldnt be bothered to get someone to write them a separate letter.

Now have they still made the error with the places the vehicle was parked? if so that will be enough to sink a claim.

You can ask the DVLA who has obtained your keeper detaisl and why and if they havne tmade 2 enquiries then again you have them over procedure.

[JoeyJoeC]

Wonder if they even applied separately to the DVLA for keeper details...

 

Ah yes, also the wrong location, they've put the land next door.

[ericsbrother]

exactly, they have to otherwise it isnt compliant. For example you muight have sold your car the day after the first event

[JoeyJoeC]

Do you have any clear images of the signage? From the google street view, it looks like they're using this same sign in all locations:

 

Mentions nothing about permits. The apparently violation in the NTK isn't on the signage. You were pre-authorised so it doesn't matter.

 

Small point, in the IAS COP, it states:

 

(A)11.2. You must ensure your company stationery and all other forms of correspondence or communication do not describe any charge which may be issued to a driver in terms that imply you have any authority as defined above by use of such words as ‘fine’ or ‘penalty’, nor must the term ‘PCN’ be used unless it has been previously defined as

reference to a ‘Parking Charge Notice’.

 

They never mentioned "Parking Charge Notice" before the first "PCN".

 

Also, they bodged up the appeals section on the NTK, as it says you can't appeal as they've already sent a notice to the hirer (?!)

[ericsbrother]

The IAS never follow their own CoP when making their determinations ( see the post about Attleborough amd 1 min stop) so I wouldnt be considering appealing on this. as Always, save it for IF they fancy their chances at court and slap them in your response to thier LBA with these uncomfortable truths. It will at least get you a full costs recovery order if they are stupid enough to want to waste their mioney on a claim.

[Mezzle]

Signage next to car can be found in my other thread for another at the same location

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?490804-Euro-Parking-Services-NTK-No-ANPR-quot-Ashted-Lock-Dartmouth-Middleway-Ashted-Lock-Way-Birmingham-B7-4AZ&p=5162333&viewfull=1#post5162333

 

Still the wrong location (lot down the road) listed, however, they've not sent one for the ticket they issued for a completely different location.

 

From the letter, they've a number next to my name, which is the same as in other instances - so I'd be surprised if they have even contacted the DVLA more than once.

 

Is it worth firing off a SAR to DVLA regarding these?

Edited January 19, 2019 by dx100uk
merge

[Mezzle]

Fired off an email to dvladatarequests AT dvla.gov.uk - let's see what I get back anyway

[ericsbrother]

if they have relied on the keeper details after the first one for the other ticket they will have dropped themsleves in the doodoo.

You can simply claim that you sold the car the next day and they wont have any evidence they contacted the keeper so no liability created and that applies to anyone, even the driver.

 

they cant just send out random demands and hope that someone passes the letter on.

Edited January 21, 2019 by dx100uk
spacing

[Mezzle]

You mean theoretically say I sold it, right? Not actually say that ? (I'm sure the court could put me to strict proof that I had?)

[ericsbrother]

this id the point of the POFA and keeper liability. they have to jump through all of the hoops or there is no keeper liability. So yes in theory you could have sold the car to your son and bought it back a week later. all perfectly legal and if the seciond ticket was issued when he owned the car they ahvent written to the keeper so no liability whatsoever created between them and you.

judges rarely ask questions or put it to any proof on things like that, if the parking co gets it wrong then the judge rarely interferes, it isnt their job to prosecute the parking co's case for them

[Mezzle]

Have had a response from the DVLA - as attached.

 

Seems they did request for them - but also made 2 requests for the same day? I presume one of those was the YMCA Erdington ticket - which someone must've actually reviewed for me to not have had a threatogram about....

Scan_20190205_100123 redacted.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

Looks as if they have done their enquiries correctly. Yes two enquiries were made on the same day but their alleged breaches occurred on different days. In addition they appear to have issued two tickets on the same day but asked for your address on different dates.

Interesting that you had an alleged breach on the 23rd October which presumably was not a windscreen ticket since they asked the DVLA for your details the day after the event.