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Hi all

 

Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water...

 

I got a letter (recorded but postman just posted it, so not signed for!) from the neighbor asking me to remove the fixings (4 screws and a bit of wire) from his fence within a mo

nth as I have no legal right and didn't ask permission and once this is done to not lean anything on his fence... Any damage caused is criminal and I would be liable for costs!

 

Thoughts please?!

 

Cheers

 

E

 

 

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what fixings?

nothing to do with damaged cars so explain yourself in full.

What fixings, when were they put there, when did he build the fence ( boundary disputes are a judge's worst nightmare so let him do his worst as alrady suggested)

Not a criminal offence to lean stuff up againt a fence but if you are stuid enough to place things there that are so heavy it damages the fence then yes, you will be paying for it so agin is there a reason he mentions this?

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The front fence (neighbours) is/was falling apart so when my builder was doing work for me I asked him to fit one of those bamboo fence things to basically cover up the messy look. He did this and used four screws and some wire to hold it up, which he attached to the neighbors falling apart fence posts.

 

The fence was there before he moved in, the bamboo thing was added maybe two years ago? It is not heavy at all, so the only damage would be screw holes into a rotten fence.

 

I believe the reason for the letter is retaliation after getting four parking tickets for parking over my dropped kerb and a letter from environmental health after their officer was in our home for a hour listening to his music which was borderline abatement order.

Edited by NGEddie

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Can I check please, does this have anything to do the problem you had when you started this thread last December, the altercation that damaged someone's car? Is the neighbour who has written to you about the fence the same person involved with the car incident?

Edited by Ethel Street

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Yes it is the same person.

 

I didn't want to start a new thread as is connected?

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Before doing anything make sure you take a detailed photographic record of the condition of his fence.

 

I don't think your neighbour understands the law very well. 'Criminal damage' is a criminal offence but, in general, is only relevant if you deliberately damaged his fence, ie if what you did was done for the purpose of damaging his fence. Assuming that's not the case there's unlikely to be criminal damage. There could still be a civil claim for damages.

Edited by Ethel Street

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Really, civil claim for damages? is this one that a judge would groan about and wouldn't go anywhere?

 

At the end of the day I could just take the screws out and prop battens against it, but the person has caused so much aggravation I am loathed to! 

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so no absolute certainty as to who owns the actual fence and as it is in disrepair he is not in a position to complain about your efforts to make it safe. Certainly no damage has been caused and if the fence is in disrepair how can he sue for a loss caused by your actions? You have probably made it last another year or two so saved him money.

 

i'm sure that this is just another attempt at trying to persuade you that he is right in all matters and would be treated as harassment if you were bothered to make a meal out of it.

If he parks on a dropped kerb it wont matter whose house it is in front of he will get a ticket but it could be read that he is deliberately parking in such a manner to cause a reaction.

As suggested, take pictures and do not respond to this letter, he wants to get a reraction and wont be happy until you admit that you owe him money for the acr, the fence and that killed the dinosaurs, not a meteorite impact.

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10 minutes ago, NGEddie said:

Really, civil claim for damages? is this one that a judge would groan about and wouldn't go anywhere?

 

At the end of the day I could just take the screws out and prop battens against it, but the person has caused so much aggravation I am loathed to! 

 

I just meant that in principle someone could bring civil claim for damages against a neighbour for damaging a boundary fence but not a criminal prosecution for criminal damage. I'm am not saying your neighbour could bring such a case against you successfully.

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Correct, no absolute certainty as to who owns the actual fence whatsoever. It is all broken and messy hence why the bamboo thing seemed a quick fix to help it.

 

The parking it deliberate without a doubt. But really, who with any sense would get parking tickets…and still keep doing it?!

 

I shall get some photos yes!

 

The anti-social behaviour team are aware of all this going on and deciding how to deal with it, although I don’t really know how much good it would do!

 

Thanks for the advice, yet again!

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8 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

I'm sure that this is just another attempt at trying to persuade you that he is right in all matters and would be treated as harassment if you were bothered to make a meal out of it.

If he parks on a dropped kerb it wont matter whose house it is in front of he will get a ticket but it could be read that he is deliberately parking in such a manner to cause a reaction.

 

I was thinking more about this, as yes it does feel like harassment.

 

1. Parking over our dropped (a couple of years but does it more now) to make it difficult getting in and out - had parking tickets and still does it

2. Playing loud music at random times - witnessed by env officer and warning letters sent

3. At rear of property there is a shared lane, he is at the end facing in and we all face along. Has concreted a bit outside his garage door and gone well into my part (doesn't really bother me but its wrong!)

4. On the broken front fence has previously moved panels so they stick into our garden.

5. The stupid letter about a few screws on the middle front fence.

 

All these things are like an immature teenager/kid/very pathetic idiot but can get to you if you let them.

 

What options would there be for me?

 

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well, as the council have ticketed him for the parking you can report that if it persists but other than that doing nothing and let him just push against air will be the best move.

Does the concreting impinge upo anyone else's use of the track? if not ignore it if it helps him move his car about.

 

I had a frined whose neighbour kept trying to acquires his and other people's land by moving fences, putting stakes in the ground to encroach and the putting up no parking signs on the stolen land. One day a group of use went as a working party to remove all of the posts, trim hedges chuck the no parking sigsn away etc i full view of the miscreant. My friend then gave her a copy of the surveyors report commissioned to show the original boundaris and said that if she disagreed she should pay for her own survey and he would consider mediation on the disputed parts. he also put a soldid metal stake in some grass that was his land that she parked on to claim ownership that protuded just enough to rip the sump out of any vehicle other than a tractor ( if was  next to what was a farm lane).

Not a peep since.

So keep quiet but log everything and do a bit of digging into the past re the fence and the lane, ie who owned them ( and the lnad) before you were there and so forth

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Hi all

 

Got this letter yesterday!

 

What are your thoughts please?

 

I may have some old photos showing the fence was there before the idiot moved in, but only a maybe!

 

Is it right someone can be instructed to do this?

 

Cheers

 

E!

IMG_20190928_094033.jpg

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well, the statement that you are liable for costs is garbage, you repaired a fence BEFORE he bought the property and have maintained it since.

I note that he has upped the ante by adding a note about rubbish. You will again need to explain this as we cant keep on guessing what problems may occur as a result of this shift, post up some pictures if possible .

i will make a suggestion that can save a lot of trouble though, put your own fence up on your property so it doesnt touch his fence. there may ne 2 fences but you will get to look at the good one and if he then wants to rebuild his fence let him but make sure that it falls within the planning regs.

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Posted (edited)

I have removed the bamboo cover fence now. I had the council anti social behaviour officer and environmental health officer round at the time who witnessed it, for what good it'll do!

 

Yes, that's probably what I'll do, get my own fence fitted. 

 

Ok sorry. The rubbish (rubble) is in the lane behind the properties and is outside my garage, not affecting the idiot neighbour, which environmental health fly tipping officer agreed with, was reported by the neighbor just a few days after sending the first letter!

 

The parking is still happening and frustratingly the enforcement/ASB officer said he's likely appealed the tickets and had them deleted, hence why is carrying on doing it.

 

I've had a good look at the deeds now showing the boundary line in the lane and the idiot has definitely concreted a good 1/4 to 1/2 way into the part that is clearly mine. I just don't know how feasible and likely I could do anything about it?

 

Thanks for the support and advice.

 

E

Edited by NGEddie

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To keep costs down I would stick with the nagging of the council to keep him in their sights.

Now the ;police can enforce parking where an obstruction is being caused but you wont get any joy calling the out but might get a result if you have a neighbourhood officer who visits the local community centre or whereever they have their drop in place and speak to them.

 

gooing to court will be massively expensive and will incur the annoyance of the judge of you ahvent done everything else possible. Concreting over your land isnt necessarily a no-no but then trying to fence it off would be

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Agreed, although they seem to want to give a nicey nicey approach 🤔 instead of the, you keep parking, causing an obstruction and are getting tickets, also you keep playing loud music which has been witnessed by the environmental health officer, we are now going to do x,y, z!

 

 

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Update. The ASB team have categorically said they want to send a letter to the idiot saying... you are upsetting your neighbor, please come in to talk about this, we need to tell you we have no power to do anything about this though... WTAF?

 

They also said my only option to stop idiot parking and obstructing our kerb is to park our other car outside idiots property 🤔 because the car is now not obstructing enough to get a ticket and not breaking any law! Even though it's obviously being done to cause annoyance.

 

Just seems beyond belief!

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Also now has 5 CCTV cameras which surely must be recording us, people in the street etc... As are pointed everywhere. Apparently the council have now power to do anything and there is no set number to have?!

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Thanks HB

 

I called the line and ICO say limited powers and to call the police...who don't want to know 🤬

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I asked ICO once about a neighbour who has their CCTV set up to film the public road not his own property and got this reply

 

"It's not illegal for people to operate domestic CCTV systems which capture footage of public space, but they shouldn't operate their cameras in a way which capture excessive data or is intrusive. You can report them to us by emailing casework@ico.org.uk and we'll contact them to remind them of their legal requirements, which include registering with us and paying an annual fee. You should note that we don't have the power to force them to remove cameras, and if you feel that they're using the cameras to harass or threaten you, you will need to speak to the police."

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HI

 

Firstly the parking in front of your drive, do you have a pavement with a Drop Kerb in front of your property to access your driveway, if so are they infringing on the Drop Kerb? (note your can ask the council to to paint a white line with lines at the end on the road in front of the drop kerb please note there may be a cost from the council to do so)

 

As for the CCTV look at this ICO link: https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/domestic-cctv-systems-guidance-for-people-using-cctv/

 

Due to the new DPA/GDPR if you have CCTV on your Property and it views outside of that Properties Bounderies they then need to register as a Data Controller with the ICO.

 

So I would make a Formal Complaint in writing to the Councils Data Controller, ICO (specifically asking if this individual is Registered with them as a Data Controller) & Police, you need to keep a good paper trail of this individuals actions.

 

I hope this individual knows the Law on Harassment as from your thread that is the impression I get is no matter what you do they will find something else to complaint about.

 

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Thanks ethel and stu007

 

Yes, we had the kerb double dropped so me and my partner can park off the road. Before , just had one, and idiot would park in middle of properties so couldn't fit two cars on road outside. Has been issued a good 3 or 4 PCNs for obstructing since done. Its the back of the car, sometimes as far as a wheel but has a long boot/bumper which hangs over, so its not fully over. Recently seems to be as far as can without getting a ticket.

 

CCTV - shall read up thanks. Oh also, when I say 5 CCTV, that is 4 on property (100% out of boundary) and 1 in car which is lit up all night.

 

Does this count as harassment?

  1. The initial start of this thread, about 6 threatening letters asking me to pay for vehicle damage or court (nothing came of this)
  2. The constant parking annoyance (going on a couple of years)
  3. The loud music, witnessed by Env heath officer but not quite loud enough for notice, so letters sent.
  4. Paint 'accidentally' spilled on road outside my property (because was parked over our drive at time)
  5. Letters about rubbish outside my own garage at rear of properties and the 4 screws attaching bamboo to his fence. Then reported me for fly tipping, didnt go anywhere as officer agreed wasn't causing an issue. I have since sorted the screws and bamboo and idiots fence is literally falling apart.
  6. Concreting over 1/4 of my grass in rear lane whilst doing own part.
  7. Stupid things like having a BBQ and the parasol sticking way over the fence into my garden.

All very subtle and annoying things to cause issues, without quite breaking the law.

 

The council are aware and claim powerless as own properties and the police pretty much are not interested.

 

What can be done? 

 

Cheers

 

E!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If the parasol caught fire because your bonfire was too hot I'm sure the neighbour would be jumping up and down in a purple rage.

 

ow as for the concreted area, if you dont use it as access yu could put a couple of posts into it to stop him from  crossing it with a vehicle and so on but I would just keep on nagging the council to investigate the nuisance and try and get them to hand out one of the new style ASBOS's. Both they and thel police have the powers to do so and you can as well but it means spending money on a civil suit.

 

Noise nuisance requires a certain level of DbA and DbB at certain times of day and be continuous so difficult to enforce. Noisy parties are easier to police as the council and plod can seize the equipment but someonw doing random things much harder.

i used ot have a neighbour who would try and upset the locals by going into his shed and just hitting a piece of wood with a hammer any time people were enjoying their garden on a summer evening He was eventually rehoused in secure accommodation under mental health act so there is hope for you yet.

As for CCTV, if any point over your way erect a pole with a small sign on it with just a smiley emoji that is big enough to cover the area of your property so you get privacy.  If others in the street have problems with this chap get them to do the same,  Another thing you can do to screw his cameras is to shine a decent power laser into them to knock the auto calibration of the system. At night you can sellotape down the buttons on an old IR remote and leave that pointing at the camera so he just sees a flashing light all night.

having installed your own more surrepticious camera you will then see if he tries to knobble any of these and if he trespasses or causes damage you your sign etc then you will have somehting to shwo the council.

They may still decide not to act as they dont like neighbour disputes either

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