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Complaint leading to disciplinary

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Morning

 

Firstly thank you for taking the time to read my thread, I have a strong union rep backing my case but have felt the need to come here for some advise, opinions and potential pointers that either myself or union rep may miss

 

Apologies for a bit of a long read and any lack of punctuation but I donÂ’t want to miss details and IÂ’m a little stressed and anxious

 

A bit of back ground info...I have work as a security officer for an fairly large airport for almost 18 months now, perfect employment record with good appraisal scores, numerous positive file notes for outstanding service, no other issues with attendance or behaviour

 

So some weeks back (6th Nov) I was working in a position on a busy day and we had something caught on our X-ray machine, a lady and her friend were quite animatedly telling me they could see a problem, I said to them when I can get there or someone else can we’ll sort it and get their belongings to them (sometimes it’s not just a case of pulling the item out, at times it has to be re-screened etc) at this point I was told I was being ‘cocky’

 

I explained I wasn’t being cocky, merely explaining I can’t do anything right that second but am sorting it, again the reply was ‘you’re just cocky’

 

At this point I said ‘I’m not here to be spoken to like that, I’m trying to help and if you’re going to continue to be abusive then you won’t be allowed to continue or fly’

 

At this point she flared up and kept repeating the same thing, calling me cocky, cocky **** and various other things then began to scream ‘call security, get me a manager’

 

i could see a supervisor on an adjacent lane so said we’ll go and get him, walked along the lane with the passenger to get the supervisor and she began shouting at one of my colleagues to get a manager and telling the story to my colleague, at which point I tried to intervene several times saying ‘I’m trying to get a manager’

 

At this point the lady demanded my name and grabbed at my pass to read it

My colleague didn’t really help the situation by trying to resolve it herself and saying things like ‘go away, I’ll deal with this’ and raising her hands to me which seemed to raise tension as the lady the joined in with saying ‘go away cocky’ etc

 

i pretty much gave up trying to get the supervisor on the opposite lane at this point and walked off to look for another manager or supervisor, when I returned my colleague had fetched someone else to speak with the lady

 

This supervisor then spoke with the lady, my colleague and myself. As far as I’m aware from his email/statement he “apologised to the lady for her experience today” asked how to make a complaint and then she left thanking him for his time

 

i had a break soon after this and then around 90 mins of X-ray screening in a remote room so was away from my team and our lane, I came back and was approached by the supervisor and asked to write a brief report of what happened as he had consulted a shift manager, he gave me some sheets to write on and a rough time of events and said complete it (who was in another terminal) who wanted to know the details of the complaint and look into if there is one to answer

The supervisor gave me a rough time to write on the report and said it must be factual truth etc then hand it to the shift manager when she arrives later which I did

 

When handing over the report I spoke with the shift manager about the incident as I was feeling pretty rubbish about it all and wanted to know what is happening, she informed me that sheÂ’s going to read through my report and consult with the supervisor then if a formal complaint is made sheÂ’ll complete and investigation into events, whatever happens she will let me know in a few days when weÂ’re on corresponding shifts

 

Almost 2 weeks passed and I then saw this shift manager and approached her for an informal chat, shortly into this chat she said that she had completed and investigation and sent the case off to HR for their decision on disciplinary action, I asked why she hadnÂ’t spoken to me since and she denied ever saying she would and said if I wish to continue the conversation to find a union rep so there is witness to anything said

 

At this point I was approached by a colleague as I wasnÂ’t visibly distressed and upset and he found me 2 very helpful union reps, they did some investigating and spoke with the shift manager who seemed to have a very different version of events in her mind and confirmed to the reps she has sent a pack to HR

 

They came back to me and explained what will happen, offered some reassurance and said basically there is little they can do until any letter or evidence pack arrives but it sounds like they will be looking at a misconduct issue if anything and with the circumstances itÂ’s not too serious

 

Another 10 days or so passed and I now have a pack with a letter inviting me to a gross misconduct hearing for “Inappropriate behaviour towards a passenger which has caused a passenger complaint”

In this pack there is the shift managers report/interpretation of the cctv, email/statement from the supervisor, my report and one from my colleague who spoke with the lady

 

The whole pack is totally detrimental to myself, the supervisor and my colleague claim the passenger said I was walking along saying “move move move” to people and directly to her “well move then and I will get it” both of which are untrue!

 

In the cctv report the shift manager mentions another colleague (IÂ’ll refer to them as colleague2) assisting in retrieving the item from the X-ray and restarting it, this colleague was witness to my exchange with the passenger but neither the supervisor or shift manager have taken a statement

 

The pack also claims my behaviour and exchange with the passenger was unprofessional and intimidating, purely based on what the passenger said to my colleague and the supervisor, it seems my report has been pretty much ignored and not even taken into account!

 

The shift manager claims to have completed a thorough investigation yet I have never been interviewed or had any questions asked, I was asked by a union rep if I had anyone accompany me to write my report but that wasnÂ’t offered, I was just given some paper and not even anywhere private to complete it, IÂ’ve since found out if I had a union rep they would have assisted in writing it to statement level and all details including exact swear words would be included (I wrote cocky, cocky something, swearing at me and words to that effect as I had told the supervisor word for word what was said and was under the impression it was just a brief account)

 

The report states I didnÂ’t get managerial assistance but I did attempt to before my colleague became involved and the whole incident took place over 4 minutes from start to the supervisor sending the lady on her way so there wasnÂ’t much time to do anything else, perhaps mentioning she may be denied travel was the wrong thing to bring in so soon but being verbally assaulted in the companiesÂ’ eyes, I saw this was a suitable thing to say and very commonly used at work

 

The company I work for has an assault policy in place for anything from verbal abuse to physical assault, an outcome of this policy being used is a passenger can be denied travel. Also as petty as it sounds they have a duty of care policy to ensure any staff memeber is ok after any incident. Neither of these policies where used or even considered

 

Ive had to ask for the hearing to be rescheduled as my rep is unavailable and have now requested for colleague 2 to have a statement taken and be called as a witness to the hearing (my letter states I can call witnesses) IÂ’ve also requested to view the cctv so I can note on my statement the times things happen in comparison to the shift managers interpretation

 

Just after some thoughts from anyone on here willing to give any advice on anything I could do or say in this situation, I pride myself on doing my job well and regularly go above and beyond providing more than the service expected, IÂ’m well known for this by my line manager, other supervisors and shift managers and feel absolutely gutted this has got to this stage and that my job is on the line from a verbal assault and lack of a thorough investigation

 

Thank you again and I appreciate the time taken over a very long read, IÂ’m happy to upload any documents if people wish to see but will remove any names or the company logo as I donÂ’t want to breach confidentiality and risk being in further trouble

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Ok, first of all verbal assault doesn't exist, so refer to it as verbal abuse instead.

In the hr letter they should have stated who to contact to reschedule the disciplinary so you can attend with a rep and any witness willing to help.

You should formally invite colleague 2 as a witness, maybe speak to him first and if he agrees to come along send an email to hr with his availability and copy him in.

It's paramount that he sits with the union rep first so he can be briefed on how to answer questions.

Managers are trained to misinterpret things and ask questions which can seem innocent enough but then are taken out of contest deliberately.

You should also be briefed by the rep.

It's very easy to be lead to the wrong path when interviewed, even though your rep should intervene when seeing things going the wrong way.

If the rep has not done so yet, request the cctv of the incident via a sar to the company responsible for the cctv handling which is not necessarily your company, baa if I understand correctly this happened in an airport.

Then you can see the entire incident without cuts and discuss it with the rep, making an informed decision whether to use it in your defence or not.

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Thanks for your reply

 

In relation to verbal assault, I appreciate its not a thing but it is categorised under company policy as such a thing3718EB3A-0AEC-4B78-95FF-BE3D47E9EF25.jpeg this is a small extract from the policy so I may have referred to it slightly incorrectly here but the company see it as an assault

 

I have requested the hearing be rescheduled when both my rep and myself are available and they have agreed to do so

 

In my invite letter I have contact details for viewing the cctv and have requested to view it with my rep so awaiting that now, no SAR is needed as it’s owned by the company I work for and they have offered it already

I’m unsure if they will have any of the sections uncut as the report states only certain cameras and times have been saved

 

I have requested via my rep to the HR department that colleague2 have her statement taken before hand but also requested she be present as a witness to the hearing, the letter also provides contact details to do this so I’ve sent that off too, she has agreed to come already and we’ve deliberately made a point of avoiding talking to each other unless work related to keep it fair

 

When looking through the investigation and disciplinary procedures I’ve been provided with it says the investigation is a process to gather all the facts and evidence etc but surely I’m being failed by them not taking a statement from colleague 2 in the first place, I feel like this would be at a maximum of a misconduct hearing if a statement was taken at the time if anything more than a verbal chat

 

Also the policies explain the importance of confidentiality etc respect and dignity for all involved etc which I’ve stuck to partly because my place of work can be like a mass rumour mill but I also find the thought of people thinking I’m like that totally embarrassing and humiliating yet the supervisor mentioned has discussed the issue with at least 5 members of my crew which has spread like wild fire!

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it says verbal abuse in the policy.

Cctv obtained by sar might show a better angle and entire incident.

I have seen footage "kindly" provided by employers which had been cut, some better angles omitted and quality altered to suit them.

Don't trust your employer.

If they're charging you with gross misconduct for something which happens everyday in every airport in the world, they're not to be trusted.

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Thanks again, I get what you’re saying but just trying to point out that’s from the “assaults on staff” policy which only seems to exist when convenient to the company

 

I’ll look into a SAR now

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For future reference, when you come across abusive people, follow that up.

Speak to a manager immediately and complete an incident report form.

I know this happens everyday but a few minutes of your time would/could prevent this sort of trouble.

This sort of individuals have a sense of entitlement and firmly believe that you are their servant, just because they bought a £9.99 Ryanair ticket.

They don't stop at abusing and moaning there and then, but take time out to get other people in trouble by writing malicious complaints, well in the knowledge that companies nowadays always believe the "customers".

Bit of a vent out now: when I was managing building sites I dealt with complaints very differently.

When customers moaned that workers were drinking too much tea or making too much dust (what do you expect from a building site???) and became abusive towards my staff, I would order them off the site and put it to the customer that they would not tolerate abuse.

100% of the times I would get an apology and no more trouble.

Of course I would investigate first to understand if the loaner was taking the mickey or had reasons to complain.

Employers today automatically blame the employees, even in cases of physical assaults, I have seen many.

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Thank you again for your reply, it’s only when speaking to my rep that I’ve found out such s policy and forms are in place, in nearly 18 months it’s only the second time I’ve personally come across this sort of thing but interestingly enough the same supervisor both times who hasn’t given the form to me or conducted anything dictated in the policy

 

I’ve got a meeting with my rep on Monday to go over everything and can hopefully come back here with some more information then, potentially will have a new hearing date by then too

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Don't forget that you are entitled to all documents related to the disciplinary beforehand, including the malicious complaint, surely your rep has already requested them if not yet in your possession.

Go through the complaint word by word and find all inconsistencies.

One common thing about these compulsory moaners is that they're equally simple and arrogant people, they think they're clever when instead they are mentally limited (hence the arrogance), so their complaints are always full of contradictions and easily proved lies.

For example, I bet she wrote that you held her there for 20 minutes and she almost missed her flight, when in fact the whole incident only lasted 4 minutes.

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As far as I’m aware there hasn’t been a written complaint made, it’s all just what she said to the supervisor at the time and she asked for contact details to write in at a later date. I don’t think this has happened

 

This is part of what shocked me so much to begin with, the shift manager told me on the day that it’s just a case of fact finding for IF the lady complained, both the supervisor and shift manager even mentioned the lady who deals with complaints, then the next thing I hear is it’s with HR and to wait for a disciplinary letter

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A4085BED-232A-4BF4-BE89-1937BC383FA3.jpeg

 

 

Here is the complaint, verbally and then put into an email by the supervisor

 

I’ve blanked out certain parts so hope that matches standards allowed

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Whaaaat????

What are they investigating then???

As a minimum she would have left her details to the supervisor and the supervisor would have taken a verbal complaint to be put in writing at earliest opportunity.

This procedure is sometimes used, but in my experience it has a 100% failure record.

Without any written complaint you simply say that no complaint has been made and there's nothing to justify.

Your rep should then attack them from the duty of care point of view: the supervisor failed to assess that you were ok after being verbally abused, in fact, she sent you to a lonely location.

I would bombard them with blame, this is all their fault.

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Ok, so there's something in writing, posts crossed.

This is a third party account, not a true record of the incident.

Notes were not taken at the time but written afterwards.

Supervisor start with a sentence admitting that "this is a rough account..."

Exactly.

Not what happened but a one sided short version with swearing and shouting omitted, reported to a third party (the supervisor) who later, maybe hours later, wrote whatever remained in her memory, a rough account.

That's your defence.

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There is also the account of my colleague who fetched the supervisor but it’s almost identical, in fact word for word it’s the same when describing what I’m alleged to have said

 

Just as you’ve said the account written by the supervisor there was sent at 11.34 but the incident occurred at 0750 and they went to work in another terminal during that time too before sending

 

Thank you for your help in pointing all this out, whilst waiting to meet with my rep it’s all been spinning in my mind

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Is it evident that your colleague statement is very similar to that of your supervisor or just what you said is the same?

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ASO, could you resave your document as a pdf please and try to turn it the right way up? I can't read it because it's too small. Our upload guide may help you.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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They quote identical things the passenger alleges I said in both statements

 

My colleagues systems has a lot more detail in what she was doing at the time etc searching a bag and stuff about an iPad but here is the extract that’s the same

 

462E0B09-DE84-4307-AD28-9AD62F9137A4.jpeg

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Will look at that now HB

247699BF-0F52-498B-9ABB-AB96E611D5AF.jpeg

E36E416C-8E8F-47EE-B412-667F499B02D7.jpeg

Edited by ASO
Changing orientation of photos

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Having difficulty uploading the pdf at the moment HB

Will try to use the computer in next hour or so but have rotated them for now

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The 2 statements are not evidently colluding, so no luck there.

However, what's wrong with saying "If you move out of the way I can get to it"?

What did they expect you to say?

Please madam, let me help you and wobble your fat @rse out of my frecking way!"

Poor us, where are we going to end up???

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Received an email last night from our HR/scheduling dept saying they’ve rescheduled my hearing for a week later when I’m on 3 days annual leave so had to email back and say this to them and now they’re rescheduling again!

They’ve also crewed our colleague 2 as a witness which is a plus point

Was hoping this will be our of the way by Christmas but doesn’t look likely now

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Firstly ask your employer where the investigation meeting has gone............ It all depends on how aggressive you want to be and how keen you are to not rock the boat much. You could inform them that you consider any disciplinary hearing to potentially (given the failures you set out) be constructive dismissal ....

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Firstly ask your employer where the investigation meeting has gone............ It all depends on how aggressive you want to be and how keen you are to not rock the boat much. You could inform them that you consider any disciplinary hearing to potentially (given the failures you set out) be constructive dismissal ....

 

Not enough years under the belt to be excessively aggressive.

Op has been employed only 18 months.

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Morning Guys

 

Apologies for not replying sooner, been working and had family over

 

I’ve requested to view the cctv they have and drafted a SAR letter to see everything in case there is something missed from just what they have input

I’m still waiting on a new hearing date from HR/scheduling department

 

I’ll come back with an update with how it goes with the union rep tomorrow and his thoughts on it to share with you

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You don't really need an SAR particularly, simply ask them to provide all the evidence they have at least five days before any hearing in order to ensure there is a fair process. Bear in mind an SAR allows 40 days to reply. Your process SHOULD be finished by that point.

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30 days now and free under GDPR


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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