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    • I Know I will get flamed for this , but for once time only I am with MET . The so called  “graffiti” is there to help people , Parent and child bays , Disabled bays , and electric charge point bays are all there for a reason  , just suppose you had an electric car and it was in need of charging ,had children in the car and need extra space to get them out ,had a disabled passenger who needs extra space . how would you feel  if the bay was obstructed . I have no doubt the experts here will guide you to having the parking charge cancelled . But morally ………..
    • I'm afraid that standing on principles almost always involves a bit of risk. I hadn't noticed the case that you have referred to – and our site team member @Andyorch has already commented on it that there is a lottery in so far as judges are concerned. I haven't seen the claim form and I don't know precisely how it was argued in court. I feel very strongly that the decision is wrong because it effectively allows contractual terms to overcome statutory rights – and this has to be in error. Whatever the case, it is most likely that Hermes will simply put their hands up and pay you out and if you had claimed 5 pounds more they would have done the same. Even if they had gone to court, your chances of winning on a claim for the £25 would be better than 95% and the worst you might have expected would have been for the court to refuse to award you the extra 4 pounds and simply to give you the £25. I think that Hermes and the other courier companies rely on the fact that their customers don't have sufficient confidence to refuse to pay for the extra insurance. Clearly this is something which needs to be tested at a reasonably within the court structure but of course this is most unlikely to happen given the value of claims. I was sorry to see that your original reason for not claiming the full value was that   I asked you to post up your claim form. I think it will be helpful if you did that.
    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
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UKPCM/gladstones Claimform - PCN operator pix - pensby Road

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well they are advising you to act reasonably and proportionately but have NEVER done so themselves ( which is why they get so many costs orders against them).

If they were confident ehy would have sent you a proper PAP letter rether than a begging letter dressed up.

It is now up to UKPCM to cogitate and decide whetehr they want Gladstones to lose them some more money. They may gamble on a claim issue will get you to suddenly wet yourself and pay up. What normally happens is they dtop the matter when that doesnt work. It is an abuse of process but so far the MoJ havent come down on them

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Thanks Ericsbrother. So shall I just not respond and continue this game of brinkmanship?

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what does my last post advise?

 

Ple4ase read things very carefully and make sure you understand exactly what is written and them you wont fall for the common trap of thinking their letter means something it doesnt actually say.

 

so to make it simple for you in this case.

 

gladstones are threatening you when they havent actually asked their client for instructions. therefore ignore them and see if the drips at UKPCM actually want to start a fight. Anything you say wont change that OTHER THAN to make it more likely if you say the wrong thing so let them make the next move, not answering wont change anything if th rentamouths are right.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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I received a PCN on 14th March 2018. 

 

Eventually gladstones became involved and I wrote to them on 03 December 2018, following the advice of CAG. 

 

I did not receive a response until 03 May 2019 which opened:

'Thank you for your letter dated 03/12/18, the content of which has been noted.

We apologise for the delay in our response however, as no further action has been taken we trust you agree no prejudice has been suffered as a result'

it then went on to demand £160 within 30 days.

It contained a copy of the signage at the site.

An Aerial photo showing where the signs are located

Two pictures of my parked vehicle (which include dates and times  Pictures attached) I ignored it. 

 

I've now received a claim form from the county court business centre. 

I have attached it at the bottom so you can see the particulars of the claim. 

 

In order for us to help you we require the following information:-

 

Name of the Claimant ? UK Car Park Management 

claimants Solicitors: Gladstones

 

Date of issue – 17th July 2019

 

What is the claim for –

 

The driver of the vehicle parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the contract) at 54 Pensby Road Wirral. ch60 7re on 14/3/2018 thus incurring the parking charge.  (the PCN)

 

tHE DRIVER OF THE VEHICLE AGREED TO pay the PCN WITHIN 28 DAYS of issue yet failed to do so.

 

The claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the defendant as driver/keeper  of the vehicle.

 

Despite demands being made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

What is the value of the claim? £176.18, court fee £25 legal costs £50 Total amount £251.18

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? The claim is issued by the claimants legal representatives - Gladstones. 

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? - yes

 

Interestingly,

It appears that UK PARKING MANAGEMENT NO LONGER MANAGE THE SITE  and in fact were instructed by a single business owner  who no longer trades there. ( there are several businesses along the stretch of road who back on to the area)

 

There is apparently some discussion from other business owners that the land was never actually theirs to enforce...…

I assume this is relevant in my defence? 

 

 

 

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

…………...

 

please put all of gladstones docs/pix in ONE multipage PDF

read upload

we don't need to see the Claimform

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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Have done as advised on MCOL and used the template - made an error in my initial post as the claimant is UK car park management and not gladstones. I am instructed to send documents to gladstones though. 

Letter's in the post.

Worried about getting a CCJ....

Doc1.pdf

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correct as post 30.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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Follow advice on here and you are unlikely to get a CCJ.  There is a saying on here about being Gladstoned, where the PPC loses the defendent wins, but Gladstones still get paid by the PPC, which followed Gladstone's duff advice.


We could do with some help from you.

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Just heard back from Gladstones. 

They have enclosed the same documents as in post 31 a copy of ths parking charge notice and the covering letter which can be seen in the attached PDF. 

wHAT SHALL i DO NOW?

 

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nothing diff

just don't miss your defence filing date


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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and what should my defence entail?

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Read up on similar threads and a three line defence  fitted to your facts,  eg for a ficticious case   it may be round dodgy POC, absence of any contractural liability etc If POFA cannot be assumed keeper is driver.  Three line should  should be ok for now, you expand on it at WS stage, less is more at this stage.


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Could you please post up the documents Gladstones did provide. I wonder what documents they have not sent for  AFAIK  they have not yet received your POC yet.

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defendants POC?

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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posted on post 31 and 34

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post 34 we can see your detail through the pen!

removed.

please read upload carefully!

 

a defendant doesn't file a poc!!


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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dont panic is my next bit of advice. Gladdys want you to feel pressured into settling before a hearing because they know their clinet's case isnt solid and certainly wont be well presented.

 

so lets make somehting clear, CPM only manage the space in front of a single building that has no clearly defined boundaries as to where their interest lies. So no lines indicating the boundaries of the land? No dropped kerb or lack of it for just that plaec and nowhere else along the front of the adjoining buildings?

 

you will need to get down there and photograph the site and its surrounds to show what cna and cant be seen.

 

Now my look on goggleyes makes me think it is a parade of shops with flats above and one fo the shops has allowed these bandits to act on their behalf. I would bet that the tenants dont have the authority to create such a contract so you might want to phone the estate agent and ask them who the owner of the building is and whther the curtillage is exclusive to the lock-up. Also get some pictures of the back of the place and its surrounds from various angles so yu can place a doubt as to whetehr your vehicle was actually parked for  ore than 10 minutes on that land without being on other property

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Thanks Eric's brother. 

Will get photos today.

In terms of my 3 line defence. 

Should it be something along the lines of:

 

No boundaries are indicated as to where parking is supposedly enforced.

Evidence submitted not clear - pictures do not show position of vehicle in relation to entire communal space.

The tenants of the building have no authority to create such a contract ( I will confirm this later today)

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Posted (edited)

no,  you get the facts first and then write defence but you will make it clear that no contract could be or was formed, you have no liability in this matter and therefore no cause for action against you.

the boundaries bit is for much much later.

 

Edited by ericsbrother

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I've been and taken further pictures of the site. Signs are displayed as indicated on the Photos provided by uk car park management, 

The new proprietor of the shop continues to engage uk car park management, but isn't the owner of the building or land.

Shall I contact the land registry to find out who actually owns the land, before I go down he no contract could be or was formed route.....

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Posted (edited)

I dont care if the signs are as they have put them in their paperwork, you show us your pictures and explain where exacty you were stading when yu took thern ad what defined boundaries there are to indicate their management of that particular grain of sand

 

the idea of getting more pictures id to show not only your perspective of things but to rubbish theirs ad not agree with them.

So put them up and we may be sending you back to take some more of the whole area, road markings, pavement etc

wise to know who does own the land as I suspect the whole block is owned by a single landlord and that meand the shop tenant certainly wont have the authority to get these banditd to tramp all over someone else's property

Edited by ericsbrother

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 Had to hide pics as car reg numbers visible in pic 1 Could you get a close up of the signs so we can zoom in  and read what they say without them pixellating please?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Your photographs are not a lot of help. first we cannot read just about the only Notice you showed. We do need to be able to read the actual notices to see if they have any hope of winning in court. We also need a sight of the sign, if any, at the entrance as well as a photo of the payment meter if there is showing any terms or conditions. In addition, photos of signs that differ from other signs in the car park.

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No sign at entrance

no parking meter.

actual signs shown in post 31

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That is good news for you about no sign at entrance and no payment meter. all we need now are being able to read the signs that are there.

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