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CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - 14mins overstay - burger king carpark Wellington RD, Wokingham RG40 2AT

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:oops:

 

I can't seem to find anything on the Wokingham council planning portal except this: http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/NorthgatePublicDocs/00425723.pdf

 

This isn't it, but should I be trying to find something online that looks a bit like this: http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/NorthgatePublicDocs/00069551.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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sure there should be a planning free parking time stated

 

don't sweat on this , you've got a few days

get some sleep

the experts will help

don't forget min 10mins will sort it too.

 

dx


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Thank you. Just trying to do as much as I can - I feel like this is a team effort, so I have to do my part!

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Hello everyone

 

I have just phoned the court again to confirm the deadline for my defence - it is today at 4pm.

 

I have been drilling through the council website to find any info about free parking times and planning permission for signs/cameras...cannot find anything.

 

Following the advice given here, I have a shortened defence written ready and waiting to be submitted (thanks to all your help!). Trying to stick to a 2-3 line defence, as advised, but also want to ensure I cover the ESSENTIAL arguments of my defence:

 

Grace period of MINIMUM 10 mins

Signage not offer of contract

Failure of Claimant to follow civil procedures rules

 

 

The defendant states the following:

 

1. It is admitted that the Defendant is the recorded keeper of vehicle registration number XXXXXX.

 

2. The main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the Defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

 

3. The Claimant alleges an overstay of 14 minutes at the car park in the Particulars. The Claimants Accredited Trade Association, the BPA has a MINIMUM grace period of 10 minutes to allow the necessary consideration of the offer of conditions to park and other actions before any contractual condition can be applied. The driver was not there for longer than the grace period and no contract was entered into. The BPA's Code of Practice (CoP) makes it mandatory for operators to allow grace periods at the start and end of parking, before enforcement action can be taken.

 

4. The Claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for. The Claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that ‘Civil Enforcement Limited’ is the legal representative of the claimant but haven't stated who that is when signing the form.

 

5. The Defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway

 

 

Regarding lack of planning consent for signs/cameras, should I include this in my defence before sending it off? If so, could you please how I'd write that in a suggest a sentence or two?

 

 

Lastly, how do I make a donation to this site for all the help I've received? Is there a 'beer donation' option too?

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so what of the original paperwork do you still have?

This will more than likley sink CEL's claim on its own as they dotn usually rely on the POFA to create a keeper liability and often send it out late anyway.

Now the sign saying temrs apply ect is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and that means you are not obliged to accept the terms shown on the other signs, on their web site or affered verbally. Having decided not to accept the offer that doesnt mean you cnat aprk, you have already been invited in to park there.

It is like me running a shop and you coming in and then deciding not to buy anything. I cant demand you then pay me for a contribution to the heat and light, nor can I refer to a sign at the back of the shop saying that you must spend at least a tenenr or I will bill you for £100 for wasting my time. That is what CEL are trying and hope that by dressing it up differently you dont notice this.

 

Now add the lack of planning for their cameras ( very important) ad likewise for the signs as well ( slighty less important) you ahve a decent defence without even looking at the contract itself, which you are gouing to photograph and show us beacsue CEL tend to suffer from amnesia and think they are sometime Starpark, a company that has no links to CEL

Land registry entry only important if there i a difference between the land they have a contract to be present on and where the car was parked or even the entry ppoints covered by their cameras so as to give a doubt as to whether your vehicle remained on land they have the agreement for.

Now seeing their contract with the LANDOWNER will also determine what authority they have if any adn oftn CEL tell lies about this as well.

 

Lastly who signed the claim form, was it signd by someoen at CEL or a legal representative and if the latter who if signed at all? sometimes they tick the legal rep bnox and the doptn say who the solicitors are. Now this is importnat as they are charging you for that missing solicitors costs, along with other unlawful fees and add ons

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Regarding lack of planning consent for signs/cameras, should I include this in my defence before sending it off? If so, could you please how I'd write that in a suggest a sentence or two?

 

Should I write something like this?

 

"The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation."

 

I hate things that start it is admitted..... Just say the defendant is the keeper of the vehicle but denies being the driver at the time (if applicable)

you dont tend to start sentences "whereas and heretofore" instead of saying " Once". Use common english other than to avoid using names so use the third person to refer to the defendant and the claimant then.

 

Hey ericsbrother, thank you for your reply. Let me address your Q's:

 

1) I have ALL original paperwork filed in my folder

2) Claim form signed by...Civil Enforcement Limited

3) I visited the site since receiving the claim and have photos of their signs. Are you asking me to upload these on here, or send you a link to the photos uploaded elsewhere?

 

This is a draft defence I found on CAG written by you(?) I think:

 

1. The defendant denies that any monies are due to the claimant because there was no breach of contract to create a cause for action. The claimants Accredited Trade Association, the BPA has a MINIMUM grace period of 10 minutes to allow the necessary consideration of the offer of conditions to park and other actions before any contractual condition can be applied. The driver was not there for longer than the grace period and no contract was entered into.

 

2. In any case the Defendant does not believe that the Claimant has the lawful authority to enter into contracts with the public at this site

 

Should I adapt this one with similar wording?

Edited by dx100uk
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post up the NTK then so we can comment before you finalise your outline defence. Redact your personal detaisl and their reference numbers and barcodes but leave the dates and times clear to see

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ok, I'll do that now. This is the first letter from them:

 

And this is the small print at the bottom of that same letter:

 

I also have a letter from the DVLA confirming when CEL enquired about my VRN.

The date of enquiry was 19/02/2018

 

Enquiry reason "Breach of terms and conditions of a private car park"

CEL PCN.jpeg

CEL_PCNsmallPrint.jpeg

Edited by dx100uk
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2 important things about their NTK

 

1 it was sent out over a month too late to create a keeper liability so they can only chase the driver at the time, who is unknown to them and as such they have lied to the DVLA to obtain your keeper details.

 

2 the wording doesnt contain the key phrases to make it a legal invoice under the POFA as they miss out a lot and particularly they dont say who the creditor is.

must be included or they cant claim from anyone as they have failed to notify you who the money is owed to ( they cant demand money owed to someone else, hence the requirement to name the creditor, even if them).

 

So sunk without a trace as long as you can get a judge to read the POFA.

 

my guess is it wont get that far as they will drop the matter when they are asked to stump up the allocation fee.

 

You can complain to the DVLA about their abuse of the KADOE contract and complain to the ICO about the DVLA handing over your personal data without checking why a bunch of crooks are asking for them when they have no cause to.

 

The more complaints the ICO get over this the better as the DVLA have for years ignored their responsibilities and lied about it

Edited by dx100uk
Space/spell

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100% agree.

 

The DVLA are as bad, if not worse, than these PPC's.

I will complain to them and the ICO after I've submitted my defence.

 

This cannot be tolerated by members of the public for much longer.

I absolutely despise these people.

 

Does that mean the CEL were hoping not to rely on POFA then?

 

I'm so sorry to ask, but would you be able to offer some wording for my defence please based on the information we have? I've written so many version I'm starting to lose the plot! I'm starting to get a bit nervous about the looming deadline which is in 2hrs.

 

Eternally grateful for all your help with this

Edited by dx100uk
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so it Will depend on how many of the unlawful bits you want to pick up on for starters but I would suggest something like this.

 

1 The defendant is the keeper of the vehicle as indicated in the claim but denies being the driver at the time. There is no keeper liability in this matter as the requirements of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) were not met to create one.

 

2. The Notice to keeper fails to create any liability whatsoever for any amount as the NTK fails to indicate who the creditor is, contrary to the express requirement of the POFA.

 

3 the signage at the entrance to the car park were not an offer of a contract but an INVITATION TO TREAT so no contract formed to breach.

 

4. The claimant has failed to show any authority to enter into contracts with the public by way of an assignment from the landowner to do the same and to make civil claims in their own name

 

5 The defendant doers not believe that the claimant has the necessary permissions for their cameras and signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 and thus is committing a criminal offence by having them there. It is not possible to enter into a criminal compact.

 

Each of these points taken separately mean there is no cause for action against the defendant and he avers the claimant has no LOCUS STANDI in this matter.

 

 

There are many other bits you could add but these are enough to kill a claim

Edited by dx100uk
Space/spell

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I've re-read the BPA Code of Conduct

 

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

 

and found the following:

 

21.6 To give drivers early notice of your claim, you should apply to the DVLA for the keeper details promptly. Usually this would be applying to the DVLA no more than 28 days after the unauthorised parking event.

 

21.7 You must post the parking charge notice to the keeper as soon as possible. Your target is to send the parking charge notice to the keeper of the vehicle no more than 14 days after receiving the keeper data from the DVLA.

 

 

Alleged parking incident: 01/12/2017

Application to DVLA by CEL: 19/02/2018 (80 days after the 'incident')

Edited by dx100uk
clarification -OP..link sorted -dx

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all of the detail can be added if the muppets dont drop it but if they dont then I would be asking for the claim to be struck out on procedural grounds later ( when you get an allocation questionnaire).

 

If that doesnt work then you will have bags of time to obtain and collate all of the in depth stuff you will need for a defence.

 

At that point you throw in the kitchen sink as well but no need yet.

Edited by dx100uk
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Thank you so much.

 

I'm going to submit my defence as follows on MCOL:

 

1 The Defendant is the keeper of the vehicle as indicated in the claim but denies being the driver at the time. There is no keeper liability in this matter as the requirements of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) were not met to create one.

 

2. The Notice to keeper fails to create any liability whatsoever for any amount as the NTK fails to indicate who the creditor is, contrary to the express requirement of the POFA.

 

3. The signage at the entrance to the car park were not an offer of a contract but an INVITATION TO TREAT so no contract formed to breach.

 

4. The Claimant has failed to show any authority to enter into contracts with the public by way of an assignment from the landowner to do the same and to make civil claims in their own name

 

5. The Defendant does not believe that the claimant has the necessary permissions for their cameras and signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 and thus is committing a criminal offence by having them there. It is not possible to enter into a criminal compact.

 

Each of these points taken separately mean there is no cause for action against the Defendant and he avers the claimant has no LOCUS STANDI in this matter.

 

Permission to submit and destroy these ....

Edited by dx100uk
Swearing spacing

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that is what it is for, as said chances are they will then go away and avoid a punishment for abuse of process etc. (telling lies on their N1 and making up the amount they claim form legal fees they havent and wont incur)

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Defence submitted.

 

I will post any updates to this thread if/when I receive them.

 

Your generosity with your time and efforts have helped me enormously, and I am truly thankful. God bless

 

I've made a donation PayPal to this site

Edited by dx100uk
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they have just fed on the blood of another poster on this site so they dont need your money.

 

I expect that they will just let the clock run down so keep an eye out for the allocation questionnaire. that is easy peasy, just tick a couple of boxes and tell them if you are away for any time and return Again, can be done online and then keep an eye on the cloc

 

Once CEL are timed out for paying the allocation fee you can write to court asking that the claim be struck out cos CEL do this habitually, have no real chance of success etc.

Edited by dx100uk
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Is the allocation questionnaire something that is sent in the post to me, or do I need to keep an eye out for it on the MCOL portal? I know it's still early days but I'm regularly checking MCOl for any updates - CEL have up to 28 days (max) to respond to my defence, right?

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You dont need to check mcol

N180 comes in the post from the COURT

You return it and copy to cel

 

Might help you during the stages to get reading other PPC claimform threads here so you know and can prepare..


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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